How do I get custody with no money?

[Meandmythreebubs]

Hi all

I am having an absolute nightmare and I could really do with a bit of moral support and possibly advice.

I am in such a complicated scenario! I'm pregnant with my third baby and my husband doesn't want it. I will hate him if he makes me have a termination - which I won't, and is what he wants. He can't force me, and I can't force him to accept it, which he says he won't.

Looking ahead, I'm worried about how I get out, he will fight me every step of the way and neither of us have any money. We both work part time and earn 1k a month each- me because I've always worked part time so I can look after the kids and him because he got made redundant from. His full time job during covid and to be frank, UC tops him up a bit so he sees no need to work more. This is something that really bothers me but he says why should he keep working full time as he always has whilst I get to be part time. The Universal Credits top up and Child benefit goes into his account.

How would I be able to get the children a majority of the time? And if we agreed to 50/50, would he still keep the benefits etc? I am so worried about how on earth I'll survive - I know full well that he will want the children (the existing two, not the one I'm pregnant with!!) 50% of the time as a minimum and so he'll keep any additional help, if he can. I'll be moving out as I need a bigger house so he'll still be here in our two bed. So if he's claiming for them then I can't, and I'll just have my income from employment, which won't even cover rent. What gives me any additional right as a mother??!

I know this comes across so cold but I'm trying to think practically so I don't think about how upset I am. I can't believe he is reacting like this, I knew he'd not be jumping for joy but I thought he'd come round.

I'm also in a joint IVA (which I didn't want) which is going to make it even harder to private rent (extortionate round here, £1k for a basic 3bed) but I'm not eligible for council housing as my name's on our tenancy so I legally have a home.

What a mess 😭

How would I be able to get the children a majority of the time? And if we agreed to 50/50, would he still keep the benefits etc? I am so worried about how on earth I'll survive - I know full well that he will want the children (the existing two, not the one I'm pregnant with!!) 50% of the time as a minimum and so he'll keep any additional help, if he can

No judge will give 50 50 custody of 2 children to a man who has rejected the third and doesn't want that one. Judges aren't idiots. You don't get to cherry pick which of your children you want and which you don;t want.

Have either of you considered how the rejected child will feel that their father accepts the two siblings and they live with him pt and are cared for by him but he rejects the third? Have you considered how the siblings will feel about being forced to leave the third behind whenever they go off to do anything fun or with dad?

I understand you focussing on practicalities. But the set up being proposed here is fraught with long term implications for an innocent baby.

I think it needs to calm down a little and then you need to talk through the wider implications together. Once he gets over his anger and resentment-surely he wouldnt want the situation above to happen?

Courts have to make decisions as to what is best for the children. Not what MNers think is right, not what OP thinks is right.

Get actual legal advice. Get proper benefits advice. Get proper pregnancy counselling from neutral professionals. Don't assume that because MN says you'll get everything you want and he is a bad man who is abusive because he does not want a third child that this is the case.

I think you will have to represent yourself without legal aid. If he is doing the same, then in situations where both parties are representing themselves then the decision is usually drawn from the court social work recommendations (a CAFCASS report). CAFCASS will be acting in the interests of the child(ren). So in this situation I would be emphasising the importance of the sibling relationship between all 3 children, and the significance of your ex wanting to treat the children differently. If they want to comment on him being the one with the benefit money, then you can explain that he is quite 'domineering' regarding financial matters and takes charge there. There may be an element of financial abuse and coercive control, but these generally are hard to prove and get dismissed in family court unless their is supporting evidence or also domestic abuse/sexual abuse/violence.

I would try to remove your feelings from it, and instead look at why you are the best person for the job of primary carer. Do you have strong social ties and lots of family supporting you? Do you have more robust health/mental health? Can you support them better financially (or have the potential to support them better financially). In the case where both parents are equipped fairly equally, it can help to show which parent is on a more positive trajectory. They want to see who is more likely to raise the kids along middle class social values, basically. Right or wrong we have class discrimination in this county. So if you are a graduate, tell them. Especially if he isn't. Eluding to an inheritance and dressing smartly doesn't go against you either.
Be organised, confident, polite. Try to tone down a strong regional accent, and don't smoke. Good posture. Yes it's acting. But court is always a bit of theatre. You want to take the high road and let him look like a mud flinging idiot.

Why can't you stay in your house? It might be a squeeze but it's doable.

If you decide to split then it's up to him to move out if he wants nothing to do with the 3rd child. I'd stay out personally, he can't kick you out.

Go to cab and see what you can do about the child maintenance, if you're splitting the two 50/50 then he should split the cm. he will also have to pay cm for the 3rd. Also speak to cab about what you'd be entitled to benefits wise.

If you do go 50/50 then you can look at going back to work full time with your youngest in childcare which you can claim back (well most if it) .

I think if you’re fifty fifty uou can’t be the primary care giver for your two kids, it’s joint custody.

I also wouldn’t lie about any abuse as the pp suggested. This could have much wider implications, and could cause you even more issues.

Coming off the tenancy is a good idea. You both need to sit down and work out the finances, it should be split Between you if you’re fifty fifty.

If he doesn’t have the third child at all, and he has the other two 50/50 then you are the main carer. I can’t do the maths but you have something like 2/3 custody of the three children.
The child benefit goes to you and any UC you are elibgible for should go to you too.

@FPS123

If he doesn’t have the third child at all, and he has the other two 50/50 then you are the main carer. I can’t do the maths but you have something like 2/3 custody of the three children. The child benefit goes to you and any UC you are elibgible for should go to you too.

This is why you need proper advice This is just nonsense

@LilyLongJohn

Why can't you stay in your house? It might be a squeeze but it's doable.

If you decide to split then it's up to him to move out if he wants nothing to do with the 3rd child. I'd stay out personally, he can't kick you out.

Go to cab and see what you can do about the child maintenance, if you're splitting the two 50/50 then he should split the cm. he will also have to pay cm for the 3rd. Also speak to cab about what you'd be entitled to benefits wise.

If you do go 50/50 then you can look at going back to work full time with your youngest in childcare which you can claim back (well most if it) .

Neither of them can kick the other out but they need to find a way of not living together somehow

This is exactly what I'm talking about. If a man is married with a woman who is protecting herself, then he is protecting himself by proxy. What married man insists on using condoms when married for years? This is ridiculous.

Not at all ridiculous if you don’t want to conceive. If you actively don’t want a child, you protect against that, and that’s doubly true if the other partner does want another child. There’s being laissez faire when you don’t mind either way, but if this is how strongly he feels about a third then he should have been actively preventing it from happening, rather than placing responsibility for contraception and a potential termination on his wife. It’s funny to see people crying sexism while espousing this view.

You don't have to have the same primary carer for all 3 children though. This is one argument against the UC 2 child 'limit' is that it incentivises couples to break up so they can both claim for themselves and for 2 children each IYSWIM. You can also the. If you live as two single parent families, you can also claim more child benefit, more childcare money, more housing element, etc. So he could be primary carer to the two children and once babies here OP would get benefits for the baby regardless.

He would still have to pay CB for the third if he wanted nothing to do with them.

I didn't trap my husband, I thought I was in a loving marriage. Yes he is controlling and since he's worked from home I've found it much harder, but I didn't think he'd be like this. And since it's 2020, we took joint responsibility for contraception which failed - "what married man accepts using condoms... Expect a woman to protect herself..." Jesus!!!! Even if you think I should have a termination now, that still doesn't magic away my situation- do you think I can go back to a 2.4 family all living together just because I did what he wanted, like I always do?

This sounds like a Jeremy Kyle show but it's my life, I'm a normal respectable person in a management position - not that that matters but this is world's away from how I saw my life ending up.

You're right, he has no less rights than me, why shouldn't I be the one who goes out to work full time - other than to work full time and get approved for renting, the agency said I need to earn 35k a year, and jumping up the career ladder like that is not going to happen overnight especially now I'm pregnant. I am trying to earn more to support us all but I'm sure you can empathise with how hopeless that seems right now.

He is the same as me, he works part time just a few hours less than me working from home, looks after the kids and earns only a little less than me. We're the same. He gets the top up support to his account so I have no grounds to request I get it, especially before my third is born. So whilst it is breaking my heart, in cold black and white (as some of you are), he could say exactly the same as me, why SHOULD he work full time when he wants to be part time and look after the children. Until the third is born, officially it makes no odds that he's not interested in it.

I feel like I am out of options, he wont leave and I can't make him. I can't afford to live anywhere on my own yet I can't get any help- yes I know it's no one else's responsibility to look after me and my job to do it- and I just can't face living without my children. Or I stay here and have a termination and be utterly unhappy- although I could spend the next few years trying to save and earn enough to get out of this shitstorm. All I keep thinking today is its hopeless and I'm alone and they would all be better off without me, there's no point in being here, the kids would even be better off without me, and if I can't live with my children then I don't want to live at all, it just feels so hopeless and I feel so trapped and alone.

@AurorasGingerbreadHouse

You don't have to have the same primary carer for all 3 children though. This is one argument against the UC 2 child 'limit' is that it incentivises couples to break up so they can both claim for themselves and for 2 children each IYSWIM. You can also the. If you live as two single parent families, you can also claim more child benefit, more childcare money, more housing element, etc. So he could be primary carer to the two children and once babies here OP would get benefits for the baby regardless.

I don't think this is the case? I don't think we can both claim for the children, and if I am not claiming for them I can't afford a home to have them in at all.

This is why I mentioned my background- I have a RP accent, I work in management, I am educated, I don't smoke or drink, I am not the person I imagine you are all thinking I am.

I'm a devastated woman who knows that on paper I have nothing in my favour over my husband, too much money to have any support and too little to support myself or have legal counsel. A lot of what's been mentioned I can do, such as working full time after the baby comes (although it's debatable whether I could exceed 25k). Its the immediate term that's overwhelming me and upsetting me. Where do I go??? At the moment I am staying put as this is my home and my kids are here, but quite honestly it's breaking me whilst he is able to carry on as normal, ignoring the issue. I've been in hospital for a suspected ectopic, he's reasonable and kind enough to take me but not to ask how I am or how I went or what's happening, just ignoring it.

He's not abusive, but he knows how to make me feel like I and what I think doesn't matter - down to where we keep the washing basket, but he can reason all these things so, so I sound unreasonable - and if I speak up its a nasty row and it's horrible and I keep the peace for the children.

Gimgebread house, I just read about the positive trajectory which is helpful. Honestly, I think he'd bring up my PND and health issues, neither of us have family here although I do have the more established social and work ties, plus I am the one who knows their teachers names and everything about school and what's going on in their clubs etc. My job is stable and secure, and his isn't altho his has more room for growth.

I think I am just struggling to see the wood for the trees or see past today and tomorrow.

I agree it is emotional abuse if he is married to OP and says he will have nothing to do with his own unborn child.

I really feel for you Op. this is such a horrible situation to find yourself in - you weren't a short term girlfriend who got pregnant. Shocking on his part. What happened to 'for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, for better or worse'?

But no, he can't even love his own child because it was an accident. Awful.

You can't both claim for the same children. But you can claim for baby and he can claim for the other 2.

In cases of 50:50 then you are meant to make a decision between you as to who claims, but in situations where there are two resident parents because there are half siblings, for example, then you can claim as separate households. Because you are separate households.

www.qredible.co.uk/b/child-benefit-shared-custody/

I’m a proponent of 50/50, but it’s not in the children’s best interest here. In the short-term, an infant can’t have the same visitation, but in the long-term, full siblings should be on the same custody schedule. If he only wants 2, the time away from the 3rd sibling really should be minimized.

I had to end my tenancy without my xh’s cooperation. The landlord wasn’t happy, but I was able to get myself removed by being firm.

I would speak to the Family Law Advice line they are likely to know much more.

I'm not mentioning the money because i think that would be the right thing. These children should be raised as much as the same sibling group as possible. They are not half siblings, their Dad needs to sort his head out. It's his behaviour that is dysfunctional. And actually, it's impossible to say that a parent who entirely rejects one of his 3 children is not emotionally abusive, because he is definitely emotionally abusive towards that child and also causing issues for the other siblings. .

Try to get the child benefit into your name and if you can't in the interim make
sure that the baby's cb is in your name as cb is a gateway benefit that basiy opens up other benefits and higher rates/allowances.

I would also seek support from woman's aid re leaving.

Do you have family who could support?

The children come as one. The youngest has a right to be part of a sibling group. No court would split them up.

Put in a claim for the child benefit. If it's you who does the shopping for uniform, kit, doctor appts, then it's you who is the primary caregiver and it's you who needs the money to provide for them.

If I were you I would not leave the home. For the kids sake really. I think it's traumatic for a parent to move out and it would never be me.

Find some coping strategies to deal with areshole partner.

The baby needs it's dad too so insist on appropriate time with him. He can't say I'm not having the baby without jeopardising time with the other two so he needs to come to terms with it. But they are a sibling unit. Remember children have all the rights, parents have all the responsibility.