International couple with a child - what to do.

[HJ82]

OH has decided he might want to separate. We are trying to work through it all but I fear it may lead to a breakup, it might be too late. Our daughter was born here, only last year (after years of ttc) heartbreaking but I can't force him to love me.

Ordinarily I'd probably easily separate and co parent. But I'm from another country and we've been talking about relocating to my home next year. Our baby was born in the Uk and he's British. I'm afraid of leaving him as I'd want to take her with me, home. I can't raise her here alone without family etc. He makes fuck all money so I'm the main provider for her. I've not sought legal advice yet but wondering if anyone can offer advice. I realise I'd not be able to take her without his permission and I don't really want to separate them. I wouldn't really have a choice. I don't want to live here anymore- I might end up severely depressed and that wouldn't be right for our baby.

He couldn't take care of her on his own.

If I was granted full custody then perhaps I could apply to take her?

So hard!!

Op

You need legal advice.

Like really really seriously need legal advice.

Not mumsnet.

Was hoping someone here might have been through something like this is all

Why can’t he take care of her on his own? Is there a valid reason ?
You don’t get custody anyone, it’s residency
Usually it’s unusual to award 100% to 1 person unless there’s safeguarding issue but that doesnt automatically mean you wouldn’t be able to move

You’d need to apply to court if he wouldn’t give permission and be able to clearly demonstrate why it’s in the child’s best interest and how you’d facilitate a relationship with the other parent

It’s not an automatic given that it would be approved

You do need sound legal advise

I don't want to live here anymore- I might end up severely depressed and that wouldn't be right for our baby
Say, in all likelihood, if he didn't agree to the move, you'd have to evidence that your child welfare would be much better in your country.

Saying that you don't like it here and would make you depressed is likely to be enough. The approach of the court is that you are free to go back to your country but not the child.

They will only focus on the child. So if you could evidence that you couldn't gain secure employment here but have a job lined up in your country, can show that you'd be able to support your child and offer them a much better life, that the benefit of being close to your family iutweights the benefit to your child of being close to their dad, that you'd be prepared to arrange to take your child back regularly for contact with their dad and possibly be financially responsible for it or at least half, you might have battle on your hands.

How long have you been in the country, how old is your child and what's your profession? Are you entitled to remain in the UK if no longer married to your oh?

Sorry just seen your DD is under 1yo. Makes it even more difficult as regular contact is especially important at that age.

Legally i don't think you can take her out of the country without his permission.

Morally, you absolutely shouldn't take her to live in a different country from her father. She has a right to a relationship with him. As a parent, it is your job to put her first.

According to the hague convention he can stop you from taking her to a different country. What are his views on this? Do you know? I agree that you need legal advice or his full cooperation.

I suspect what this will boil down to OP is how hard your DH is willing to fight you over the issue of you leaving the country with your DC. Some people do manage to move home after a divorce and take their DC with them, but it's not the norm. TBH (and I know this is going to sound blunt), you should've thought about this before you had a DC with someone in a foreign country. I'm also in an international marriage and we discussed and agreed where we would live before we even got engaged, because it's so incredibly important. If you marry and have a DC in another country and then one of you changes your mind about either the relationship or the country you can be stuck in that country.

Bottom line, you need legal advice from someone who deals with cases like yours on a daily basis. Don't just go and see a small-town solicitor - you need someone who specialises in international custody cases.

The thing is, the OP could take the child to her home country and see what hubby does. If he's decided to separate after finally conceiving a longer for baby, methinks maybe he's decided he doesn't want it. It might be a relief for him for you to leave. He might be expecting it. He might sign all forms if you ask him. Mumsnet always keen to have father involved but it does sound to me like he liked the idea of being a dad and not the reality. There is no point in staying in UK op if Dad decides to have sporadic contact that dwindles to nothing while you live in poverty unsupported.

@Bitchinkitchen he has decided to end the relationship so why shouldn't she go home - morally he should accept that. He can move if he wants to.

@zafferana

The plan was to always move back to my country. In fact we were starting the process!! I never thought we would split. This is sudden! Obviously I'd put her best interests first. I feel she would have a better upbringing and life in my country. I can't bear to separate them though. I just hope it doesn't come to that.

[quote Pieceofpurplesky]@Bitchinkitchen he has decided to end the relationship so why shouldn't she go home - morally he should accept that. He can move if he wants to. [/quote]
He's ended the relationship with his partner, not with his child. You can't punish a man for dumping you by absconding with his child!

Pieceofpurplesky don’t be ridiculous.

NC for this.
I have a DD with my exH we are both british. We split up when she was little. I moved on and met DP he's Hungarian. Brexit happened and my DP experienced lots of xenophobia and we decided we wanted to move to Germany where my Aunty lives.
I spoke to a solicitor but taking my DD was basically a no go. Even though I'm resident parent. My exH has a right to a relationship and us moving this far would stop this. Unless he was in agreement which is wasnt.
I think you would only be able to move if he agrees.
Sorry if that's not what you want to hear.

Which country are you in? Is it under Hague and which country is your home ? If you move back to uk it will be virtually impossible to relocate back to your country, you will need to apply to court for permission and cafcass (free but so father friendly no matter how shit the dad has been) or independent social worker (c£7-£8k) for assessment, they will then write recommendation either supporting your move or not. Then if dad still disagrees then you'll have to go to court and spend ££. If it was me I'd nearly trick you husband into returning to your home country, stay for six months so your child has perm residency status in that county then say see ya to him. Of course get legal advise too but they battle to get out of a country is just so bloody hard. I joined global arcc a charity (you should too) and the amount of horror stories of 'stuck' mothers is very bad. Pm me and I can give you legal contacts for uk (London) and maybe able to advise The Hague. Good luck

Why is it ridiculous? They were planning on returning there to live as a family (see earlier post) - he has stepped out of the relationship so why should she be the one that is punished - she will want the support of her family she is hardly absconding. He can maintain a relationship with his child like other parents do that live abroad.

Piece of purple - sadly I (and many other) wish it were that simple. It's not. And for those who say you had a 'pre agreement' it wouldn't have any legs to stand on in court. To leave a country with your children is one very big battle and you need to think very strategically on how you would handle it.

I know os have been there with a friend trying to leave Australia and an abusive relationship (to child and mother).

I hate the idea that the OP is having her morals questioned when her whole life and plans are turned upside down because he has decided he wants out. Plans were being made to move ... so now she can't even do that!

I think you will struggle to leave with your child unless your OH agrees
Could you persuade him to give your relationship a fresh start in your home country? Then you are there with your child, and he can choose to leave

How did to get on? I'm thinking of you as it's a really tough position to be in. Hopefully the responses put things in perspective a bit

I have some personal experience of international relocations (I’ve taken legal advice about relocating with children) it’s possible but you need to take advice from a specialist lawyer who primarily deals with international relocations (standard family lawyers will tell you it’s not possible/you won’t get permission) and it’s expensive. You’ll need to show you can provide a better life for your child in your home country (even better if you have a job offer, house etc.) as others have said the father absolutely has a right to a relationship with child so you need to demonstrate how you would facilitate that ie trips back to U.K. or sharing costs of his travel to visit. The fact that your child is very young will help your case as your child does not currently have strong ties with U.K. life (friendships, eduction, culture etc.) so the sooner you progress the stronger your case. You could always try to see if he will agree to you moving with your child (perhaps through mediation). Good luck.

Excellent advise from pp.

My kids were 2&3 when I got divorced in France. Couldn't have moved country and been allowed to take them permanently. Normally you'd need to have been resident in a country for 6 months to get divorced there.

@Pieceofpurplesky has it spot on morally. Even if you weren't planning to move back to yours, why should you be stuck in a country with no support and that you don't want to be in alone. It's ridiculous. Even more so knowing you were planning to move to your country.

Someone else mentioned what I was thinking, if you TTC for so long and he left so soon after, maybe he hasn't taken to fatherhood but only you can guess as to how he feels @HJ82 In which case he may support your move (as unlikely as it is)

I like the idea about asking him to try fresh in your country, again only you know if you can sell this. Or even move over as "housemates" and see how things go.

So sorry this has happened to you, if he doesn't support your move home with your DC then he really is an arse. He may be super supportive though, so fingers crossed.

It’s not about punishing the dad
He has a right to end his relationship without his child being removed from the country
And things agreed when together as part of a family unit change when no longer together

OP you need specialist legal advice
Don’t move unless you have his agreement and in writing
If you can’t secure that you have to go via fir all channels which will include demonstrating why this in the child’s best interest, how you will facilitate a relationship ( which will involve long periods away from you during holidays etc) , cost of travel , and so on

If you can do this you may have a chance. If not, you may need to accept you have to stay and make a happy life for yourself here

It’s still not clear why he couldnt care for her alone?