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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

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Original poster

Faith in the system or settle and CMS?

22 replies

Cherrypie3456 · 01/05/2020 22:57

Hi has anyone got experience to share re divorce ending court. I’m stuck in a place where we have the bones of a settlement, the main sticking points are a couple grand here & there but mainly the maintenance. He is offering a figure based on CMS calculator, but it’s based on earnings that are not correct as he owns his own business ( which I am a director of) so his P60 does not reflect the actual income. My new solicitor has said a decision can not be made with out his financials - tax return etc etc , but he will not voluntarily give these up. So I either suck it up and settle, or start court proceeding to force his hand.
People say “ ooh your entitled to this and that” but realistically I don’t think I will come out much better off settlement wise - it’s just they will apply for a global maintenance rather than just child alone. Again people say court favour the main care giver, but I have left the family home and the amount of settlement we have agreed.
I can possibly prove he earns more than he says but will it be enough in court, is it worth the battle and the debt? I’m tired of him doing what he wants I.e. refusing to pay, refusing to supply papers, he’s not supposed to change locks but he has. Feel like there no consequences for him - that’s why I’m unsure about court.

OP posts:

Techway · 01/05/2020 23:35

Court is a risk as it is very much Judge dependant. It is also costly and could be at least £20k each.

So I think it depends on a few factors, such as children's ages and level of CMS vs his actual earnings. Have you settled pensions?

I went to court FDR stage and settled because I wanted it over. I did better than Exs proposal but his was dire so for me it was worth it. A friend went to full hearing but it was very marginal and hardly worth it. Her final judge was not favorable towards her.

Ex was similar and refused to produce full documentation and even at FDR stage there was no downside. It is frustrating as Ex is very wealthy yet will, after a few years, have to pay little towards the dcs.

Take time to consider. Is there a number you feel is your bottom line?

Men who resent giving money to support children will always find ways to hide money...you may have to make peace with that as sometimes the stress isn't worth it.

Post divorce mothers are usually worse off financially because they put the children first. It sucks but it is the reality.

However going to court means you know you have tried to get the best settlement and that could also give you peace of mind.

Original poster

Cherrypie3456 · 02/05/2020 14:35

Thanks Techway, appreciate your comments.

Kids are 10, 6, 4, currently he’s having them 3 nights CMS figure just shy of £400p/m
His actual earning and accountancy trickery means he gets at least double what he’s telling CMS, but he’s saying he will offer a further voluntary contribution as long as he able to.

Pensions are agreed each to keep, however if I go to court I’m sure he’ll come after mine which currently is more than his.

Are you saying that even at the 1st session your ex hadn’t produced what he should and nothing was done about it?
That’s a worry actually - if he has moved money and I can’t prove what I’m looking for. It’s a lot of money to spend to not come out any better.
He keeps relying on clean break settlement saying the court fees will be more than what we’re fighting about. He wants me out of the business but won’t budge on anything else.
I agree with your last few points , and yes it’s the peace of mind part why I’m still considering it.

How did yours finish in terms of maintenance - was he instructed to pay a certain amount for a set period of time ?

OP posts:

AnotherEmma · 02/05/2020 14:41

Personally I would go to court as I don't think many judges would be impressed by his refusal to provide tax returns and other financial info, and by him changing the locks. You can't possibly work out a fair financial settlement while he's being like this. The only way to get that is to go the legal route. I think it will be worth it in the long run. Especially re child maintenance because if you don't get a court order to impose it, you'll be reduced to claiming paltry amounts via CMS.

What an arsehole.

AnotherEmma · 02/05/2020 14:42

"Feel like there no consequences for him - that’s why I’m unsure about court."
This makes no sense. Court is the only way to ensure there are any consequences!

AnotherEmma · 02/05/2020 14:44

"he’s saying he will offer a further voluntary contribution as long as he able to."

Bollocks

Rougefox · 02/05/2020 14:49

I’d change solicitors. I’m at very early stages not even applied for divorce yet but my solicitor said he would be forced by the courts to show his earnings. If not a forensic accountant would be brought in.

It doesn’t sound like your solicitor has your back on this. Are they not guiding you through it?

Techway · 02/05/2020 16:08

At the FDA you can request he provides documents but if he dodges this at the next session, which is FDR a judge may not force it. I had this situation Ex refused to declare all his earnings as complicated.

His barrister went on the defensive and I got the impression the judge just looks at the documentation briefly before the session. The judge then gives a view of what he thinks might be reasonable and both parties leave to work out a deal around the Judges parameters.

Someone said to me, prior to court, it is so judge dependant and who you get on the day. My barrister thought mine was not pro mothers but I could have gone to final hearing, where I was guaranteed a different judge, and Ex would have had to provide all the details. I chose to settle at that stage.

£400 a month isn't a lot for 3 children but I assume he says he is a low earner

Rougefox · 02/05/2020 16:26

£400 a month isn't a lot for 3 children but I assume he says he is a low earner

It’s not but if he is a big earner it makes a big difference.

My husband is saying he will pay for the school fees for our children and no maintenance. I don’t currently work as been a SAHM so it’s ridiculous for me to choose. I either pull the kids out of school or have no CS and struggle financially. At this moment in time he is telling me what I can have and will get a shock when I take him to court. He is also saying I won’t get any financial records so I’m watching with interest.

Original poster

Cherrypie3456 · 02/05/2020 23:41

@AnotherEmma - Thankyou! Exactly that. Can’t make a decision without the facts . Totally agree with Arsehole & Bollocks

OP posts:

AnotherEmma · 02/05/2020 23:51

"Totally agree with Arsehole & Bollocks"

This might be one of my favourites replies I've had on mumsnet in a long time

Best of luck 💪

Original poster

Cherrypie3456 · 02/05/2020 23:54

@Rougefox - have recently changed solicitors because yes the old one seemed very disinterested in my case. It’s the new ones asking for the financials to make an agreement.

What an impossible situation for you. It’s beyond belief they don’t see it as supporting the mother is supporting the child/ren.

With every thing shut down I worry about how long court process will take.

OP posts:

AnotherEmma · 03/05/2020 00:09

I think you can submit online and there might be online hearings - your solicitor should be able to advise though.

Nowthefunbegins · 05/05/2020 09:21

I’m in a very similar situation. We had an informal agreement and he was due to pay me the balance of my share of the company next month. He’s now changed his mind, and stopped all money to me. I’m not being bullied anymore, starting the court process now, which will infuriate him, and will be very expensive, but what he is offering is derisory.

Lorry123 · 06/05/2020 16:42

My story too - ex who hides money in a business and has done everything in his power to screw me over CM - he currently pays £90 in total for 2 kids despite earnings (bonus/DIVS) of £80k plus. Every time the CSA determines an amount he contests it or appeals - it’s gone all the way to a tribunal - it’s bananas. No real advice other than don’t prolong it if you can - court is risky and expensive with no guarantees and often sanity outweighs trying to get these characters to be reasonable

Thatbitchcarolebaskin · 06/05/2020 16:47

I can’t advise on the court issue but I will urge you not to put too much hope in the CMS, particularly as your ex is self-employed. The CMS are notoriously incompetent with everythingthe self-employed so please consider your options carefully

Original poster

Cherrypie3456 · 07/05/2020 07:31

@Nowthefunbegins, has he just done that off his own back , or solicitor told him it’s ok to do so?
Have you made your application yet?

OP posts:

Peonyonpoint · 07/05/2020 07:36

I def would keep on being a director of the business for as long as you possibly can - don’t you have legal responsibilities to see all the financials?

Original poster

Cherrypie3456 · 07/05/2020 07:36

Thankyou all for your replies appreciate it x

OP posts:

Original poster

Cherrypie3456 · 07/05/2020 07:51

@Peonyonpoint Thankyou. If I settle then he wants to sign me off. Which I would do if he wasn’t been such a shit over maintenance, and he’ll be laughing all the way to the bank.
I’m still getting the “I sent them “ from him and “ nothing has been provided” from my solicitor , the accountant is also stalling in sending me info it ‘s a joke. So if he doesn’t give it up voluntarily then court is only way to force his hand I think it comes down to .

OP posts:

GoldenBlue · 07/05/2020 07:59

If child maintenance is discussed at court I believe they can still revert to the CMS amount a year after (I'm not sure but was the case when I divorced).

Different if you're applying for spousal maintenance but I don't think the courts very helpful for cms.

Plus dividends make it easy to hide money because cms is only setup to cope with salaries.

I know a couple who fought all the way and spent £20k each on court. I chose to reach a settlement because even though I knew I could get slight more I'd rather he had it than a lawyer.

Eggybreadleg · 07/05/2020 07:59

I wouldn't bother with court. After one year he can just go back to CMS and use the calculator to change the amount. You won't make up the court costs in that 1 year. I would fight harder for more capital and use letting go of a higher maintenence figure as a bargaining tool.

Nowthefunbegins · 07/05/2020 10:38

@Cherrypie3456 No he’s decided for himself. He doesn’t believe in Solicitors and thinks he knows it all. He won’t negotiate at all so I don’t really have a choice. I have a good solicitor though and I don’t she’ll pander to him. I’ll make the application when I’m back at work (which will hopefully be full time), so I’ve got some money coming in

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