Am I being reasonable, does this seem a fair request?

[suzysweet]

I am about to separate again, last time was 3 years ago, for a year. We didn’t really make a proper split mainly because of children, it seemed much better to have as little disruption to them , so he still came round for tea , came on family meals , came to us at Christmas and stayed over some nights. We got on much better and started talking, which is a huge problem usually as he sulks and will not talk at all, the silent treatment is his specialty , this is just depending on how he feels though , not because of a disagreement. He behaves as if he doesn’t like me , snaps at me or ignores me, only talks about himself and what he’s done, would never ask how my day has been or how I’m feeling about anything. We’ve been married 20 years , together for 30 and I’m not living like this for any more of my life. It’s very lonely and all though I enjoy my own company, the kids are the only affection and conversation within the household. I don’t want them to see that I have stayed in such an unhappy marriage when I would be telling them or anyone else in the same situation to get out. My dilemma is how to go about it, I can not get a mortgage on my own, I would rather not rent as it feels very unstable and I need a secure place for us to live although I would rather do this than stay. He could move out again but then I’m still in what seems like his house, although in joint names. I’ve worked out child maintenance he should give me and this would cover rent/ mortgage so I could financially survive just about. Ideally I’d like to sell house and buy cheaper house , ( he would have to be on new mortgage still) but the new house would be for me and kids until they had left home and then we could sell home and split or one buy the other out. Does this seem fair? He can live with his mom , who has a spare room. It would give the kids a secure home and me somewhere to live while the kids still at home. I know he’d want to do the best for the kids financially. It would hopefully give us both some of the house equity to pay of debts and as an emergency fund, as I’m on minimum wage this is essential. Do you think this is reasonable to ask him to help me buy a cheaper house for me and kids , he could still afford easily to rent or live with his mom as earns more than 4x my annual salary. I’d only want child maintenance .I have no idea if I’d be entitled to more but just want to be able to live and support myself and kids which he’d would also have to financially support. What do you think I should do? Move into rented house, sell house buy a cheaper one(as joint owner with him still) or stay in marital home and him leave( the house needs lots of maintenance, which he won’t do and I can not afford to do on my own ), any other options?

No its not fair to have him on a mortgage in a house he isnt involved in and it can cause all sorts of problems

It seems like moving into a rental is the only financially viable option.

Honestly, it's not remotely fair to ask him to be on the mortgage for a home that he'll never live in. Plus I imagine it'd put you in a fairly weak position legally if everything became acrimonious.

Focus on what you can afford without any financial support from your husband and start there. Renting may only have transient security but at least you'd have a legal right to reside at the property, maintenance of the property wouldn't be your financial burden and you wouldn't have to worry about your husband deciding to play games with child maintenance (a quick search on here will tell you it's not uncommon).

It's a terrifying prospect I know, but what would be worse...staying in a miserable marriage or starting again? I know which option I'd choose. Only you can decide which option is right for you, but don't turn your husband into the golden goose. It almost certainly won't work well for long...if at all.

Thanks for your replies, I was thinking of the house being for the children’s security rather than mine. It’s very different me leaving on my own to me leaving with 3 children , I have no deposit for a rented place and do not think I’d even be able to get one as I have a ccj (his loan transferred to my name years ago), plus unless we sold house I’d still have a mortgage in my name so do not think I’d get housing benefit or UC which if I he didn’t give child maintenance I couldn’t afford rent without. I think I’d have to stay in marital home with him move out but then he’d keep coming back like he did last time . I work 30 hours a week but am trying to get more. We could sell house and split equity then I would have deposit for rented , could also pay off debt but would have a clean break even if then in a home that wasn’t secure. I have pets and could only afford the cheapest 2 bedroom rented place so would have limited choice but I see this may be only option. Thank you for replies.

@suzysweet - I'm actually in a similar situation (but from the other side).

My wife doesn't work and has no mortgage capacity so the only way she can stay in the family home is for me to stay on the current mortgage.

Surely, it would be better to split the equity and have a clean break? That way, you're in complete control of your own finances. I think it's unfair for your husband to remain on the mortgage for a home he doesn't live in.

You mentioned you wouldn't be able to get universal credit if you're named on the mortgage. Is this information correct? I'm not doubting you but just interested as this is applicable to my own situation.

Yes you can get uc if your living in a house with a mortgage

This sounds like me 5 years ago. Just take things one step at a time.

What are your priorities? Mine was to get away from the misery and loneliness that week by week was pulling further into depression. Therefore I prioritised finding a rental place I could afford and yet was close enough to ex to allow ex 50:50 care ( you don't mention your husband actually seeing the children btw😒, that needs to be factored in because you'll need him to pull his weight to allow you to work more). The martial home was in his name though, so I wasn't liable for mortgage payments.

Financially, leading up to leaving I saved every penny I could for deposit and first month's rent. I was already claiming tax credits and child benefit and so just notified these that I was single parent when I moved out. I also became eligible for some housing benefit help.

The BIGGEST obstacle was rental agencies, most wouldn't even get beyond the fact I was having my pay subsidised by benefits and therefore wouldn't even let me view houses. This was heartbreaking. I also have a dog which again is a huge disadvantage when renting.

The best 2 ways round this are to visit agencies in person, so that they can see that you're well turned out etc. ( I know!! So wrong, but helps!) And save enough to pay 3 months rent in advance or offer an extra deposit amount. I also stopped telling agents I was on benefits. It's actually none of their business.

Check out entitledto.com to find out exactly what help you might be entitled to.

Regard renting as a stop gap whilst you sell the marital home. Chances are once you come to divorce this is what will.happen and then you'll hopefully have a deposit to pay off your ccj and start over.

Citizens advice will help. And there are charities who will pay a rental deposit for you depending on the area you live it.

Gingerbread.co.uk also a wealth of info as is Wikivorce.

You can do this, just do your research first.

Are you actually married? Have you seen a lawyer to discuss what he would have to give you etc? That would be my first port of call.

Can he pay off the ccj debt now as it’s his? That will sort some if your problems as you will need to be able to get credit.

How much equity is in the house?

Would it be possible for him to sell it and give you more actual hard cash for you to use as a deposit on a new mortgaged house in your name for yourself, thus appearing more attractive to mortgage companies due to the larger deposit?

The extra cash he gives would be instead of part of his monthly maintenance. This could get you a nice small house but then you’d have less money coming in monthly maintenance so you’d need to reduce your outgoings time cover the bills.

atr79gb from what I have read you can get universal credit if you are a home owner as long as you have been in receipt of benefits for 39 weeks without a break. I do not get any benefits other than child benefit so would be making a new claim.I will have to look into this further though , ideally I just want to get out ASAP and into somewhere that is completely mine or rented by me but financially I’m not sure I can do it before joint home is sold.
slipperywhensparticus - Im not sure this applies to new claims for benefit but will look into it.
45andfine- my priority is definitely to make a proper break and make a home for my kids where we are not all walking on eggshells. He can see the children as often as he likes , they are of an age when can be left alone while I work so do not need him for childcare. He has never taken them out for the day on his own , the furthest is to the park at the end of our road. When the kids were little and I worked evenings and weekends he used to take them to his moms. I can’t see him taking any more responsibility when we have split. I work full time at the moment but term time only, I am hoping to be working 47 weeks a year rather than the 40 I work now as soon as a position becomes available. Yes all the problems about renting you’ve mentioned are the same for me, but I also need to be within walking distance of two schools as kids need to get themselves to school and I’d struggle affording travel costs if we had to move further away. I will get in touch with citizens advice and gingerbread, thank you.
Elieza- we are married, 20 years, I haven’t seen a solicitor as have no spare money. I pay a lot of the bills now and am on minimum wage , so have nothing spare , I’m pretty sure I’d be financially better off on benefits as although he earns more than 4 times my annual salary, that is his money, he pays mortgage, food and some bills, I ask for money I need for kids stuff only when I have no choice. He doesn’t begrudge the kids things but seems to take pleasure in me having to ask him for money. there is nowhere near enough equity for a deposit on another house, and I could not get a mortgage on my wage alone anyway. I’m hoping equity will give me enough to pay off debt and give me about £5000 to furnish house and emergency fund for broken washing machine or car repairs etc. I’ve worked out I should be entitled to about £600 per month for child maintenance on his wages, that’s for 2 kids as oldest is away at university most of time but obviously I still need somewhere for her to sleep while she’s here which can be every other weekend and all holidays, she works as well as studies but I couldn’t expect her to pay me housekeeping while she’s home as she has so little as it is being a student.
I think I need to look into renting privately and putting house up for sale , just have to try and get a deposit and get husband to agree , as at the moment he won’t discuss anything with me as he knows I’m eager to make decisions so he won’t help me but I can’t just make these decisions about selling house without some input from him, just another way for him to have control of the situation.

Hmm, is he this guy?

Hang on a minute....he earns 4x your salary....so where is this money going every single month if you don't see any of it. Has he got investments? A huge pension? You are married and the money he has earned that you enabled him to earn by looking after the kids etc is half yours. So your assets may be looking bigger than you suspect

You need look at all assets available, his earnings yours, ages and needs etc

Your eldest won’t be considered for housing needs but sounds like your others would

Do you know all assets available ?

ohwheniknow - he definitely has a lot of those traits but most are very subtle, he’s only actually nasty to me , to everyone else he’s happy and laughing , it’s like he has a huge chip on his shoulder about everything though and is angry about everything he sees or hears , like the way people drive or if someone parks outside our house, or if somebody has more than him or does well at something he always is sarcastic and nasty but would never say anything to anyone else’s face.
FlowerAndBloom- I know he has a pension but he is self employed and keeps everything close to his chest, he told me a couple of months ago how much he is earning while sub contracting to this new company but then when I mentioned it again he denied it and knocked £6000 off and said he didn’t even earn that much. I have no idea what he does with his money he says he doesn’t have any spare and he does pay van and car loans and most of the bills but we have a low mortgage and I know what all the bills come to, and he should have plenty left but wouldn’t tell me , if I ask about it he just won’t tell me and says he always gives me money if Ask for it , which is true but I never ask unless it was something for kids and I have run out of money completely. I’d also get a sarcastic comment about getting a better job , although I have always worked , even when kids were all little, I just worked round him as couldn’t afford to pay for childcare. I work full time now again although it’s minimum wage , I’ve spent my whole working life since having kids taking jobs that fitted round him so that it wouldn’t affect his work as he earns more.
millymollymoomoo- it’s hard to get an actual figure for his annual salary , I can not find his accounts for last year at the moment, would a solicitor be able to get this from his accountant? Apart from that we have a house but it is interest only so there is not much equity in it. A car and van both on finance. Th car is in both names although he pays finance for it and I run and use it. I couldn’t afford to pay finance on it so he would have to have car and I’d go without until I could save to buy one.
I’m going to contact citizens advice tomorrow and try to get some advice and get m ducks in a row before I speak to him again. I’ve seen a perfect house just down the road that I could rent, I’ve spoken to a family member who has said she would lend me money for deposit, I just need to make sure he’d give me child maintenance as that is what I’d be relying on to pay rent . I’ve worked out benefits I’d be entitled to and I could cover all bills , and have enough for Xmas and birthdays but no more. But it does seem possible now so I’m feeling positive.

The child at university is generally deemed to be still living at home, so unless their circumstances are unusual then you will allowed a bedroom for them.
You won't get much help with housing costs as an owner occupier. Just SMI which kicks in around 9 months after you start receiving benefits and entitles you to a loan of the interest amount of the mortgage. (Not the capital and it has to be paid off - more info here: www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/support-for-mortgage-interest-smi/

You seem to be hinging everything on him paying the £600 per month child maintenance. This could be problematic for you. 1) he's self employed and this salary will vary. There's also lots of ways he could hide salary to avoid declaring it to CMS. 2) that CMS will stop when your children finish full time education - what will you do then?

Just an update , we have spoken, he would not agree on figure for child maintenance , I just asked for what it said we were entitled to from government child maintenance calculator. He has agreed to pay mortgage instead ( half the amount of child maintenance). So I’m staying in house with kids and pets he’s moving out , to flat or house he can afford. I should be able to get universal credit and with my wages this should cover everything, although on a very tight budget , I also know it’s never quite as simple as how it looks on paper , there are always unexpected expenses but I am trying to get more hours at work , so that would help. So I am paying for everything in house apart from mortgage ( interest only mortgage so nothing being paid off) he will carry on paying car finance I will pay for everything else to do with car, for next 12 months until contract finishes then car will go back and I’ll have no car. He’s said he’ll try to pay for anything extra kids need . When kids leave home we will sell house , split equity and I can rent smaller house. Considering he earns more than 4x my annual salary this doesn’t really seem fair. Or is it, what do you think?

So you’re getting the mortgage paid which is half the money you would be legally entitled to for child maintenance. And he’s going to pay for your car. Probably as he can’t renaig on the lease contract he is in. How much is that? Does it add up to the other half of the child maintenance?

If not he should fuck right off.

I don’t see how you can make decisions about anything when you don’t know he his earnings. Ask CAB how you would find out about that.

Good luck OP. I hope you get what you need to look after the children. If he gets then half the week he won’t have to give you any money. That may be worth remembering when it comes to budgeting for rent.

Is the car lease in his name? He’s done you a favour here, he’s moving out and the kids will now not be disrupted. Once he’s gone apply to CMS for the maintenance you are due. If he’s self employed he will try all the tricks in the book and you will end up needing a forensic accountant during the divorce which is expensive

Have you spoken to CAB ? UC.? After 20 years of marriage you might be able to get more than 50% of the house