Anyone able to talk me through the process?

[parrotonmyshoulder]

Hi,
I know there are many threads on this, but if anyone is able to support me with all the questions I have, it would be much appreciated.
To start with, I haven’t told DH yet that I want to separate and divorce. If I wrote down my story though, I think that it would be agreed by most that it is the right and only conclusion. I don’t need the emotional support for the moment - I have a good therapist - but how it works in practice, I have no idea. Please don’t offer any ‘doormat’ comments. I am well aware of how stupid I will be perceived.
He will not agree easily. He is financially and emotionally controlling. Married 13 years, cohabitating for around 20. 2 primary aged DC. No family locally. Both work full time. He earns about double what I earn. 4 bed house. I don’t know what the equity is...

Question 1: Please forgive my cluelessness. He has been in complete control of all finances for many years. When I tell him I want to divorce, can I move out with the children into rental if I can afford it? I will have to continue paying my half of the mortgage?

Question 2: When I engage a solicitor, how do I start and what will I need to know beforehand? I literally know what’s on my pay slip and nothing else. That goes into joint account.

There will be more questions, if anyone feels able to help. Thanks.

@pareotonmyshoulder.
Thank you for starting this thread. There is some great advice here.
We are on the brink of separation. Not yet said I’m done though. He is also very controlling and manipulative. He wants me to sign a post nuptial agreement for us to continue working at the marriage.
I refuse. And he says without it we can’t carry on. It is basically a divorce settlement which is legal should I sign and it has zero disclosure.

From my solicitor she has told me about an e form (I think) which is full financial disclosure. He will have to provide 12 months bank statements for all accounts. As will you.
If money keeps going out then he will have to show where.
I suspect mine has hidden a lot hence refusal to sign a post nup.

This agreement says he has first refusal to buy me out of the house. He can have it! I want a nice calm house where I can breathe easy wear my shoes if I want and get a dog.

A friends said to me to get the birth certificates. I can’t get to the passports as they are in a safe I don’t have access to. But I do have photo copies so I can get the numbers quickly.
You will also need your original marriage certificate. I’ve had that for months and he doesn’t even know!

I have huge concerns on the childcare if anyone can help on that. DD 13 DS 9

He currently doesn’t work and since I asked him to leave decided to become a ‘dad’. He can’t cook at all. Not even boil an egg. He’s never used a washing machine and if you could see the bedroom (I’ve move to the spare room) it looks like a student live there.
In theory he will have to go back to work to buy me out of the house but has said if he doesn’t get 50/50 childcare he won’t work.
If he does work he has already said he will either get an au pair or use his parents for sch runs. They are nearly 80.
Can I prevent this on grounds he can’t look after himself?
He will need help and I don’t work (plan to but will be around kids)?
I also believe he will manipulate the children into being like him so can I use the fact he is like this?

I’m not saying zero access at all but 50/50 concerns me for the welfare of the kids. DD also can’t stand him as he is weird as she puts it!
He really does do some very inappropriate things around her and if he wasn’t her father I’d whacked him one!
Thanks

I’ve also just remembered that she said for a very controlling man to use shuttle mediation. That way you don’t have to be in the same room and feel intimated by him.

Re the joint account, if his salary goes in he can stop that and just make the minimum payment needed to sustain the household bills. This is what Ex did, he even put the modest mortgage on interest only since he begrudged building up equity whilst finances settled. He deposited only the absolute minimum into the account as that just prevented me from applying for an interim maintenance order.

Once a controlling man realises he has lost control you become the enemy. I just want to alert others as I was so shocked at his attitude. He even applied for residency whilst knowing he would not manage with his job. I think on reflection he did this to have me fighting on childcare and finances and he knew that I would prioritise my children. He dropped his claim for residency a few days prior to the hearing (because he was told he had very limited chance of winning) but not before he has put myself and the children through 6 months of stress (and of course the massive legal bill).

@OEJ1979, at 13 your daughter will be able to express her wishes. I don't think needing his parents to help or an au pair is viewed negatively by Cafcass, they rely on parents to make suitable childcare arrangements and don't make judgements. However the staus quo is often favoured since it offers less disruption for the children but equally courts seem to fall over themselves to show they are not biased towards mothers. A dad, even one who did nothing prior to separation is viewed as an equal parent.

I wish you all welk, it may well be a bumpy ride but there will be an end.

@Techway so there is a chance he could be awarded 50/50 childcare?

As you say that would be very disruptive for the kids and I’m not sure how it even works but that scares me.
One night in the week and every other weekend I had as an amounts I’d cope with.
But this may not be this case?
And if I get some judge that wants to show good to men could he actually get more?

OEJ1979, if your Ex applied for 50:50 then a judge would appoint Cafcass to assess the children's "wishes & feelings". At 13 your daughter views would carry weight so unlikely to get 50:50 if she isn't keen.

It is younger children who have less power in the process as Cafcass make the recommendations and judges tend to follow through on.

Good luck to all of you on this.
OP good luck with lawyer.💐

Thank you @Techway
I am very worried he will manipulate them into saying they want to be with him. I would never stop either having a relationship with their dad. It’s very important. But part of why I want to leave is that I don’t want the DC to grow up thinking this is normal. DD to accept a man that controls you every thought and does sweet fa and then thinks he has the right to verbally abuse you is ok. Nor do I want DS to treat a women like this.

He already controls many aspects of their thoughts and is stopping them grow and develop their ability to think for themselves.
Do Cafcass look at these things. Do they take statements from the parents.
If they don’t in reality I don’t see why as he isn’t working he wouldn’t be given 50% care.
Does the status get reviewed?
Such as if they set it and the kids aren’t happy with grandparents or an au pair it can be changed?

Sorry lots of questions. Your advice is much appreciated.

OEJ1979, if the court decide on a schedule it can only be changed if both parties agree (and then it is sensible to lodge a new order with court just in case it is ever challenged).

I understand your worries and you are typical of most mums who are genuinely concerned about their children.

When a parent applies to court for contact it is usually because the parents cannot agree so positions are pretty entrenched. A judge appoints Cafcass and depending on children ages they may only meet the children or have phone interviews with parents, it depends on the reasons why contact is disputed.
Controlling behaviour is very hard to prove, especially if no police reports or extreme behaviours and there is a general approach within Cafcass that neither party are blameless, they try very hard to be neutral.
Parents are allowed to make childcare decisions for their children and outside childcare isn't seen as an issue as it is so widespread in society. So a children where mum has always been at home can "lose" contact in favour of a dad who works and uses childcare on his days.

However I think your fears won't be borne out. Very, very few men are prepared to sacrifice their careers or lifestyle to step up to parenting full time, no matter what they threaten. As in my case he went to the wire just to cause maximum pain to me. Post divorce he has cut his time with the children as OW and career are more important to him.

If you have informal agreements on childcare then you are not involving courts and that is generally better for everyone. As your children get older they will decide where they want to be and I bet if your Ex moves on with someone he won't want the children around much.

Once you are away from him the children will see the differences between the homes. It just happens naturally as they relax more in one home. Controlling men do not change even as charming as they can be the mask always slips. Mine are drained after spending time with Ex, they walk on eggshells alot of the time, watching his face for flashes of anger as I use to do.
They rationalise that their dad is an angry man but they know when they are all doing activities that he enjoys it is fine. It is painful at times that my children have to endure a toxic parent but they are doing ok.
Not ideal and they won't ever have a close relationship with him but he can offer them opportunities that I can't afford.

If your Ex has an inkling of a divorce be prepared for him to hide money.
Yes you have to declare finances via FormE (you should be able to find a template online) but unless you employ a forensic accountant it is very tricky to find where money has gone. Mine set up 12 accounts and refused to give full details. We didn't go to final hearing as I just wanted it over and until that point courts are relying on parties to self certify. I was shocked Ex lied so openly (his Form E) under called his salary by a vast amount and only got the true figure when my solicitor forced to produce p60. My barrister raised it however the judge just skirted over it. Don't rely on his honesty in the process.

This is making me much more scared, but I did want the truth.
I cannot imagine DH would want to go anything like 50:50 with the children, as in the current situation he does as little as possible, including emotional contact or conversation. But knowing he could, to spite me, is so scary. The children are so used to saying what he wants to hear, checking what they think they’re supposed to want and think first, that they would find it very hard to give true opinions to CAFCASS. They don’t know how bad it is because they don’t know anything else.

@parrotonmyshoulder solidarity to you, I had a not dissimilar thread the other day and it was a bit sobering.
Like you DH is so hands off with the kids that it would be laughable for him to go for 50/50 but it’s good to be forewarned that’s what he/they might be advised to do.
Similarly to you, I never wanted to live in this big house and actually DH put the offer in without properly discussing it with me first and just said ‘it’s done!’. It is too big, feels like a burden, a status symbol for him and is not a happy place.

Unlike you I couldn’t afford to rent somewhere big enough for me and the (3) dc so I’m so scared about having the conversation and fear that we would need to live separately in the same house until it’s sold.
I’m also scared that being a high earner he will be able to afford a really tough solicitor, and I know he sees it all as his money so may turn nasty.

But we can do this, we are strong enough. And we are fortunate that it sounds like for both of us although it is likely to be highly unpleasant for a time, there is not a financial barrier to leaving.

My DH also works abroad a lot though his company is based here, but he (well we really, as my name is on the house too but there’s hardly any equity in it) have a property abroad and he has a bank account there so I’m now worried that he could squirrel money away there.

Sorry if I have scared you! I did have a seriously abusive Ex so my experience is towards the extreme end.

I think most controlling men will be very difficult about finances as they never viewed you as a partner, more hired help who they now need to deal with by a cheap payoff.

The vindictive men will fight for more child contact if they want to punish but I think if they have full on jobs, even their legal team will encourage a more reasonable approach. It was Ex's barrister who made him pull the plug so ultimately there are sensible people in family law. Solicitors are supposed to act in ways to lower conflict and get agreement as there are family law guidelines. Ex's was happy to break these and were warned about it however.

If you get a good experienced solicitor you will feel supported through the process and they will set your help guide you.

Unless he's abusive, don't leave the house! A friend of mine did and even after a divorce, her husband stayed in the house and refused to sell and sort out their finances. As the primary carer, you will have rights to more financially than you think. Get a solicitor's advice and continue to stay strong through the rocky times ahead. Good luck!

What defines ‘primary carer’? I mean, it’s so obviously me, but how do others define it?

On my thread someone advised keeping a diary of the times he got home and left, the times he wasn’t there for family meals etc (every week day at least in our case!)

I haven’t ever had family meals as he is so unpleasant during them that I feed the children separately and eat with him later. Under the pretence that ‘we’ like to eat later...

Thanks. I will do that. But he could claim ‘work’ hours as reasons for not being with them. Thing is, I always make sure I finish my work in time to pick them up from the childminder. He always times it so he doesn’t. My work could go on forever (teacher!) but I prioritise my children.

What about him having been up for the last hour (off to do his ‘hobby’, yes it’s cycling!) but not having said good morning or ANYTHING AT ALL to his children. Does that count as not being main carer? I am sitting in bed drinking coffee but they keep popping in and out to show me what they’re doing.
Even the dog doesn’t bother getting out of bed when he’s first up as he knows he won’t get fed or let out.

@parrotonmyshoulder, hopefully your H won't challenge your primary carer status, most men are realistic and they generally prefer to pursue a career and have free time for social life and hobbies.

It is very hard to predict what might happen as it depends on his reaction to the divorce. He might decide to move out and punish you with little or no contact with the children, he might be amicable and you can agree finances and children jointly or he might decide to fight for more time with the children.

If it went to court there are many factors at play. If he decided he wanted 50:50 then there would be more onerous on him to demonstrate it was achievable, given you do childcare now. If it went to court it would take at least 6 months and during that time you would be able to judge if he was stepping up and if there was impact on the children.

There is no certainty about divorce in regard to finances and child arrangements so you need a leap of faith, usually the pain of the marriage however compels you forward. The starting point for most finances are 50:50 but depends on ability to meet housing needs of both parties. Child arrangements are usually EOW and 1 midweek unless the father wants to fight for 50:50. This is based on the fact that most mothers today still retain responsibility for childcare even if working to allow the father to pursue a more demanding career.

Only the marital profit and loss is split equally.

Not everything.

Bear this in mind

Part of any divorce is full transparency of finances.

So I'm the end it will all be laid bare and available to both lawyers.

You will have say and input to it.

Not everyone lives in Scotland Ss!