How old do DC have to be before they can decide whether they want to see their father ..

[Winona45]

Very difficult break up with DP in July.
He moved back to his mothers.
We have 3 dc. 16,15 and 8.
He has seen the DC a handful of times since summer. Generally when someone has brought them to him by car. He has picked them up once by himself for an afternoon visit.
He drives but isn't currently because of mental health issues that he is denying. He was under the care of a psychatrist who diagnosed paranoid psychosis but he has now refused to attend his appointments and stopped taking his medication.
He also sufers from ME and doesnt work, hasn for 15 years.

The problem is that the DC no longer want to see him particuarly. The reason being is he is making them very uncomfortable with things that he says to them and texts. He is aggressive about me, has told the children awful things about me and has started to ask the children to make a choice as to whether they want to be with hm or me. He brags about using dating apps and having to meet other people as I have " thrown him out like a piece of shit "nd just has conversations with them around things they really do not want to talk about.
16 year old just doesnt wabt to see him anymore until he stops saying these things to her.
15 year old is uncomfortable but feels sorry for him
8 year old is generally oblivious as he doesnt receive the texts because he doesnt have a phone.

The last lot of texts came over the weekend when he text the 15 year old . He told some lies about me denying him access, I absoloutely did not, I actually tried to encourage it but he will NOT come and pick them up !!
The final straw came when he told the 15 year old that he will be applying for custody of the 8 year old !
He also text me that as well ! He's told me that he will apply for custody of the 8 year old as he believes I am sleeping with someone who is dangerous and part of his paranoia !! Im not sleeping with anyone !!!

So the DC no longer want to see him at all.
What do I do ??

My daughter hadn't seen her father since she was 3 but he got back in touch when she was almost 6. I spoke with her the best way I could, and she said she didn't want to see him. Part of me thinks that was because she was scared of missing out on something at home, but partly because she remembered the time she spent with him (albeit vague) was not enjoyable. I've spoken with her frequently over the years about it. She's recently been involved in something very public (advert) and it's likely he will see her on so I asked if she wanted me to tell him in advance. The answer was no. So I think it's whenever you feel they know their own mind. My daughter knows she only has to ask and I will put her in touch with her father. But she's 11 now and has not been interested so far.

You do nothing. If there is no contact agreement in place through the courts, you have no legal obligation to do anything. If he puts in an application for custody (rather than just blustering), you inform CAFCASS of the mental health difficulties etc which you presumably have evidence of.

The 16yo and 15yo can choose not to see him, with the 8yo it's more borderline but you can ask for supervised contact.

In the meantime, you reassure your children that you will facilitate them seeing him when they want to but will not force them and you wait.

It sucks but the legal system has a process...

First you say this

16 year old just doesnt wabt to see him anymore until he stops saying these things to her.
15 year old is uncomfortable but feels sorry for him
8 year old is generally oblivious as he doesnt receive the texts because he doesnt have a phone.

Then this:

So the DC no longer want to see him at all.

They don't really match up.

I would say it's a recent breakup, he's acting like a tosser and that's bound to affect his relationship with the kids, but they're still his kids. He's presumably been there for their whole lives up until now? No mention of any signs of abuse. So he's struggling with MH and a breakup and probably doesn't even realise the affect he's having on the kids.

That doesn't make it better, he needs to sort himself out.

However, it sounds a little bit like you got upset at some of what he's saying and have pushed this on them a bit too. Like I say you just gave two different accounts of how they feel. Specifically the youngest who was oblivious but doesn't want to see dad now.

All I can say is custody in court will sort out a schedule, maybe avoid unsupervised with youngest for now as you ex doesn't seem fully stable (and without an agreement he can legally take youngest and not return him) the other two can decide for themselves I imagine, I doubt a court will impose anything on them. Just keep in mind that even if you're the 'good guy' if you try to impose not seeing their dad on them, you will be the 'bad guy' let them deal with that relationship and focus on your youngest and how to deal with that.

If your ex is likely to listen at all, explain to him in neutral terms exactly how he is making them feel.

The 15 and 16 year old are old enough to sort out their own contact arrangements with their father themselves. In fact if the 16 year old turned around tomorrow and decided to move in with their father you couldn't do anything. You could still go to court over the 15 year old but it would be pointless as as soon as they turned 16 they could do what they like.

Tell the older two children to decide when they want to see their father and to tell you in advance. Tell their father in writing preferably by email that he, himself, needs to sort it out with his older two children as it is completely up to them when they see him and you aren't denying him any contact with the older two.

The 8 year old is too young. So you need to hash out an arrangement with their father so the 8 year old has regular contact with him. (If his mother, the children's grandmother, has a good relationship with the children and is going to be there when the 8 year old stays over then it will be harder to argue the father can't overnight contact.) If you can't do it yourselves then you need to get a mediator involved. If you sort out a schedule voluntarily then you both avoid wasting time and money plus have less stress than going to Court.

Block his number on their phones and then text or email him saying the kids don't want to see him.

Courts will accept that a 12yo ish can make a decision on whether or not to see their other parent.

I'd send dc3 for contact and delay them getting a phone as long as possible to protect them from their father's text messages. By the time they get a phone hopefully he will have a partner and stop the hate or have lost interest.

Teens can decide but I would encourage them to have periodic contact, moaning to your teens about the break up/unfairness of former spouse/dating apps isn't uncommon - my dd actually wrote my profile! The 8 year old doesn't get to decide

Sorry, but I don't think it's a good idea for him to see your 8 yr old. They're vulnerable and your XH sounds like a very difficult person for them to be around.

It's unenforceable when the kids get to 15 and 16 - they can make up their own minds. My two did and their father was not mean spirited or making them uncomfortable. They just couldn't be doing with swapping homes all the time. However when one stops going it can make it harder to persuade younger ones.

For the 8 year old I think I'd tell the ex the reasons why they might be reluctant to go and that saying things out of turn has a negative impact on his relationships with them.

Let him see his children. They are not exclusively yours.