Supporting 2 mortgages

[atr79gb]

I'm currently going through a divorce and had my first mediation session yesterday.

One of the challenges we have is that I currently provide for my wife 100% (she doesn't work). We have around £240K equity in the house and 2 children, aged 5 and 8.

There is around £170K left to pay on the mortgage. My wife had a low paid job when she worked before and she readily admits that there is no way she could take on the current mortgage.

So, it looks like this comes to a choice between selling the house and me paying for the mortgage whilst not living there. We're planning on a 50/50 custody split so we need to be able to support 2 homes.

My mediator has asked me to contact a mortgage broker to see if it's feasible to take on 2 mortgages. I earn £75k a year. I understand as well as taking on the additional mortgage payments, I would be liable for capital gains tax.

It sounds like this would not be feasible financially but I would rather investigate the situation fully. I'm planning on contacting some mortgage brokers over the next few days.

Has anyone found themselves in a similar situation?

@VolcanionSteamArtillery thanks for your comments.

Can I respectfully suggest that, rather than accusing me of wasting everyone's time, you offer constructive suggestions or advice on how to resolve the current situation?

It should be noted that we have only just begun mediation sessions to resolve the financial situation. I've already mentioned that I will reply back to the thread once I have an updated view of pensions. Sorry, I don't find your language helpful.

My dh was in v similar position with ex. He took the pensions and gave her all the equity. There was a clean financial split, he was so relieved closing the joint bank account as her spending had always been out of control.

He was fortunate that he could borrow money for a deposit from his parents.

They both had to downsize and her own solicitor said it was a good deal and that she couldn’t expect not to work till the youngest, who was 6, was 18. Maintenance was based on her going back to work when youngest went to secondary school. Equity paid for the new house in full.

She promptly remortgaged the house to get a boob job and a big expensive holiday. She’s now got a huge mortgage.

Anyway, just bear that in mind. Get you finances as separate as possible. She doesn’t get to divorce and expect everything to carry on as before but with you not in the house.

Have all the relevant information ready before you waste time and money on mediation. Your pension is a marital asset excluding it might be considered a little misleading.

There is that constructive enough for you?

Someone got out of bed on the wrong side this morning. Every other thread on this forum is posted by someone try to figure a way through a messy split without having already had all the advice and info available. Not entirely sure why one of the few threads posted by a bloke is getting so much snark...

few threads posted by a bloke is getting so much snark...

Because hes asked whats fair whilst not giving the information needed for anyone to judge.

Taking it to the extreme if his pension pot is worth £300k. Giving the wife 55% of the house equity would definitely not be fair. Depending on the value of the pension pot and given the inequality of the two individuals abilities to raise a mortgage taking a very high proportion of the house equity leaving the OP his pension might well be fair.

But not even a mediator can know if half the relevant information isnt present and im amazed any mediator is prepared to mediate when full disclosure has not yet been obtained.

As it is i object to any married person who happily pays into their own pension pot knowing they as a married couple are not equally paying into their spouses and then actively sneers at the wife for not having one. Its not unreasonable to think as a married couple any contribution to a pension is a contribution to their future joint financial security

Not seen anything on this thread that suggest the op is trying to hide assets or pensions. He’s simply trying to understand how/ if he can support two households. Instead, his ex is burying her head in the sand, refusing to work and thinks it’s the ops job to pay for her to keep that lifestyle even though she wants to separate

Whether the OP's pension pot is £3 or £300K, it doesn't affect the overall ability of the OP and his STBEX to house, clothe and feed themselves post separation. The amount of liquid capital available to be split is the same.

The inclusion of a pension in marital assets is well established. The giving up a greater equity share to keep sole control of pension is highlighted on gov website
here it even has a name, pension offsetting whether it £3 or £300 matters very much

Noone's saying it shouldn't be included. It just doesn't affect the total "spendable" assets currently available to be split between the two parties in order to cover their living expenses post separation.

Anyway, none of this is helpful to the OP. I'm done.

You need to sell the house, split the equity and each buy your own property. I would suggest, assuming that you have a pension which needs to go into the mix, that she has £200k of the equity to but a smaller house outright, and you have the £40k as a deposit on your own new house. If this is the case, she would forgo any claim on your pension.
She wouldn't get a mortgage at the moment even if she got a job tomorrow but in a couple of years once she's been working she could get a reasonable one and upsize. Do NOT become embroiled in guaranteeing a mortgage for her,. She cannot stay in e house, no matter how much she wants to.

I really think you need to push for a clean break even though it means her getting all/the bulk of the equity in the home and selling up.

Your Ex needs to be financially responsible for herself and the DC.

As your DC are still young you could choose to buy a 2 bed for now knowing that you will have to upgrade to a 3 bed in the future.

It would be lovely for the marital home to be kept but it's not sustainable as your Ex refuses to work etc. Even if she did it's a large mortgage to take on, presumably with high council tax and bills etc.

Thanks for the replies.

I had a lot of discussions yesterday with my wife about the future arrangements.

I've been prepared to offer her a good compromise of an equity deal that is in her favour, as many posters have suggested, or spousal maintenance.

However, she wants to be able to stay in the house at all costs - the only way she can do this is for me to remain on the mortgage which I'm not prepared to do.

Yesterday, she invited her mum and her husband round to our place and they tried to force me to agree to stay on the mortgage.

She is absolutely adamant that a court would order that she won't have to work and that I will have to remain on the mortgage and pay for it.

She has told me she wants to give up on mediation and go through the courts.

I feel this is misguided. She may well not get the result she wants and it's going to be horrendously expensive for both of us.

I expect this to drag the whole situation on even longer. I will try and call my solicitor later.

Well she's wrong, she can't have her cake and eat it.

You need to be able to accommodate the DC too. Has she actually spoken with a solicitor? If not she really needs to and fast.

Ok so just get it to court. She’s in for a shock

Unless there's a huge amount of back story here, she is sounding very unreasonable and is in for a shock.

Don't let her and her family bully you. Of course she wants to stay in the family home, that might well be better for the kids, but not at the expense of you having your own secure safe home for them too. And what happens if she moves someone new in??

Does she have a solicitor, OP? Have you been back to mediation with the new information?

Without pensions info, seems like the ‘best’ split would be sell house, you have £20K deposit and get a mortgage of £200K, she gets £220K outright.

My advice to you having been though this in a horrible drawn out process, is, do mediation, and tick that box.

File for divorce as soon as you are able and take it straight to the family court.

This will conclude the situation quickly and fairly.

They will draw up a fair and balanced way forward that will mean that an unbiased third party has judged fair.

It's highly likely the judge will expect the house to be sold and assets split taking into account any pensions. They always consider the children first and the division of assets is allocated to protect the children.

It's likely the house will be sold, your exw has the option of working and getting a small mortgage or using the money to rent.
It's also possible, but highly unlikely, that you'll be asked to pay spousal maintenance for a short fixed term until she's on her feet.

The other option the court may consider is you paying a part of the mortgage and the marital home being sold when the youngest is 18. This binds you to her for a lot longer and courts do not do this lightly. If there is enough equity for her to buy a flat or small house outright to house the children and for you to take on a new mortgage to buy yourself I expect this will be asked.

Whatever happens she will be expected to work and support her children. Gone are the days when spousal maintenance crippled one party. Unless she is disability benefits and unable to work she will be expected to sign on as available and attend interviews.

Take it to family court as soon as you can. It's unlikely you are going to get a reasonable outcome through medication and her refusing to work.

Thanks for all the replies.

Does anyone have experience of pursuing a divorce settlement through the family courts rather than mediation?

Is this quite a long, drawn out process or can it be resolved relative quickly once both solicitors have the information they need?

I assume this would mean myself and my wife attending the hearings in person.

Sometimes you can't reason. Suggest you get all your info in order, and crack on. Be optimistic for negotiation (esp when CETV is in), but plan for not. It will get expensive if she refuses to see sense.

It is also possible now reality has hit that things may have to change that it will be dragged out (she may prefer to dig heels in to avoid change and stay as long as she can, not seek employment, be slow to respond to paperwork etc) - and if you continue having shared finances her spending may also increase to prove her need for you to maintain her.

It doesn't matter if both solicitors have full information if she refuses to heed advice or only hears what she wants to hear.

Don't continue to have shared finances at all. That's not helping anyone. Tell her it's stopping from January and she needs to claim UC to support herself. That gives her time to apply and get the payments before you stop giving her money (for herself). You are currently paying the mortgage and bills. She needs to fund the rest of her living expenses herself. You could ask her to use some of the UC to contribute to the bills (but you won't).

The only way to make her see sense is to give her a cold, hard dose of reality. She simply has to take responsibility for providing for herself and her children too. Then you can agree a settlement that reflects the effects being a SAHM has had on her earning capacity and ensures the children are adequately housed by you both. It could even provide short term additional support while she retrains so that she can earn more.

Your children will be fine. You have them 50% of the time (which is time your ex does not need to pay for childcare during while she works) and you can ensure they have clothes, material things etc. The settlement can ensure they have a decent home with you both, so your ex only has to pay for bills and living expenses. Everyone will be better off once your wife comes to terms with reality and gets herself back into the workforce.

Yeah I guess from January if she starts having to pay 50% of council tax, water, utilities etc she may realise that just having the mortgage paid is the least of her problems!!!

Hi sorry about your marriage I'm the wife in this situation but I'm the one pushing the divorce through the courts for reasons of safety

It's tough but I think it would perhaps be better for you to stop pushing your stbexw to talk to you about the divorce and do it through solicitors the whys and wherefores are long gone but perhaps show some mercy she's going to lose her home and her standard of living a life on benefits is crappy even if you do pay the minimum of maintenance.

A divorce with children is now done in three separate parts

The actual divorcing known as the Nisi and the Absolute

The child arrangements order which states how the children will be looked after and with whom

And the Financial order which is mainly the things you are talking about here if you can agree on terms your divorce process it likely to take a good 18 + months the actual divorce itself is less than 12 months

Couple of things about universal credit to be aware of when working out a settlement. Firstly, spousal maintenance is deductible pound for pound, so if she's claiming £600 per month of UC and you agree to pay her £500 of spousal maintenance she'll only get £100 of UC. Secondly, UC is means tested so if your STBX has a big chunk of cash (e.g. from proportion of house equity) she won't be able to claim. Worth bearing in mind if she's not going to be spending the equity on a deposit because she can't get a mortgage...