Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

How to move abroad with kids without father’s permission

26 replies

ohyesohyessyyesyes · 15/01/2019 15:47

Hello.
Name changed for this...
I married and had 2 kids in a country that’s not my own.
Now divorced.
Kids are bilingual and in a local school.
I have an ok job (teacher in an international school).
I know we could have a better life somewhere else. I would be happy for the kids to see their dad in the holidays (which are mega long in international schools).
Kids’ dad would never agree. He likes controlling us here!
Can anyone best advise me how I legally get around this?
I have been here for over a decade. I have done my time and the kids would like to move too.
Any help really appreciated 🙏🙏

OP posts:

goldengummybear · 15/01/2019 15:52

You need local legal advice but as the children are normal resident in their Dad's country, they usually have to stay there as divorce laws often want to preserve the status quo for them,

Original poster

ohyesohyessyyesyes · 15/01/2019 15:54

Yes I have requested a meeting with my solicitor.

I guess I’m hoping that, seeing as the kids want to go too, as well as the fact that they can still see their dad as much as they do now, a court would consider us going a possibility....

OP posts:

HotInWinter · 15/01/2019 15:55

You need absolutely rock solid, bona fide, legal advice. No one on Mumsnet can give you that.
Are you in DHs home country?
It will likely be very difficult, and possibly impossible. But it will depend on which countries are involved.
I'm sorry, and hope it all works out for you.

BaronessBomburst · 15/01/2019 15:56

Would the children have a better life if you took them away from their father, their friends, and the language and culture that they've grown up in?
Now the answer to this may be yes. It depends how old they are and where you live now.
I'm guessing it's a no.

TeacupDrama · 15/01/2019 15:57

Generally speaking I don't think you should move away they were born there it's their home also legally you can't move without father's consent I think just seeing him occasionally in the holidays is not the same. also it removes father completely from every day decision like school

While you may think it would be great. I think the father could quite reasonably withhold consent to move and I thinks court would agree with him

BaronessBomburst · 15/01/2019 15:58

Cross-post with you saying that the children want to leave too.
How old are they? Would the local courts consider the children's wishes?

Original poster

ohyesohyessyyesyes · 15/01/2019 15:58

You are right and actually I am waiting for my solicitor to get back to me with an appointment time.
In the meantime I was wondering whether anyone had any experience of this.
He was violent and the kids want to go.
I am hoping these two facts are given the consideration they deserve if it goes to court...

OP posts:

Original poster

ohyesohyessyyesyes · 15/01/2019 16:02

Thanks for the opinions. They’re interesting and true in part.

If it was a question of ripping them away never to come back, I would not think it was in their best interests. However, I am going for citizenship and will probably retire here eventually.
Furthermore, they would see their dad and their friends often in the holidays.
Ine of their languages in English and they would still speak that.
Moving would offer us a better standard of life, particularly a better tier of school for the kids.

OP posts:

TeacupDrama · 15/01/2019 16:03

The ages of kids matter;
was he violent to them? moving from Australia to uk is different to moving from Southern Belgium to northern France

MissMalice · 15/01/2019 16:04

I imagine the difficulty is that you’ll be under the laws of the country you are in which could be very different to any other country that people may have experience of.

Is he currently having contact and if so how often?

Original poster

ohyesohyessyyesyes · 15/01/2019 16:05

Kids are 7 and 10. They’d be nearly 9 and nearly 12 by the time we moved if we could...

We would really like to move from Northern Europe to Asia...

OP posts:

Original poster

ohyesohyessyyesyes · 15/01/2019 16:07

Yes he has contact on Tuesday nights (he gets home at around 19.00; his mum covers the kids until he arrives) and fri nights.
If he is on a business trip or invited anywhere he refuses to do it. I should probably start logging this. So for example he barely saw them in December but jan is quiet so he’s more involved...

OP posts:

HotInWinter · 15/01/2019 16:08

Are you in a big country?
Could you move further from you ex, whilst remaining in the country? A bigger city, better schools, further from his control?
You mention retiring in your current country - so why not investigate a way of making a new life in this country, away from him?

HotInWinter · 15/01/2019 16:14

Ah, ok, so you are British, he is northern European, and you want to go and do a SE Asian teaching stint? So, not even go back to the UK? I think this is sounding very complicated. And I'm look at this from a point of view of watching a work colleague struggle to get his step son into a country, when father had given written permission, but it wasn't long term enough for a visa, and from amicably divorcing friends (her from A, him from B, living in C).
But th8s is all speculation without knowing the exact position. You need to wait for that solicitor appointment.

TeacupDrama · 15/01/2019 16:16

Does the country you are planning to go to sign up to the Hague convention as there could be a concern that once you are there you don't bring them back A court even if it from agrees may order you to bring them back 3_4 times a year at your expense
It maybe difficult to persuade a European court that education would be better in Asia. It may well be possible for their father to ban this entirely as an attempt to alienate him it is a big jump from twice weekly contact to a couple of times a year.

HeadsDownThumbsUpEveryone · 15/01/2019 16:27

If you wre planning to retire in this country then I think moving to another part of the same country would probably be your best option.

The children may say they want to move but do they actually have any experience of what moving to another country would be like, or do they just think it would be nicer than where they are living now?

In terms of visiting their father are you prepared to pay for flights for each visit? This will probably be a requirement off any contact plan drawn up.

MissMalice · 15/01/2019 17:45

So he’s violent but you’re allowing regular contact? That may be difficult for you to argue as a reason to move.

What about the rest of the children’s family - maternal and paternal?

Can you afford to cover all the cost of travel?

Original poster

ohyesohyessyyesyes · 15/01/2019 19:04

He was violent towards me, hence the divorce. He has had a couple of nasty moments with the kids. I reported them and he went on a course and now it’s better.
My side of the family are in the uk. He only has a couple of remaining members. They are here but don’t see the kids that much (max 1 afternoon per week).
Yes of course the kids don’t really know what it entails.
I could move cities within the country but I know we would have a better life in Asia.

OP posts:

Original poster

ohyesohyessyyesyes · 15/01/2019 19:07

The other thing is that contacts in these international schools are for 2 years only.
Do you think I might have a case to take them for a two year trial?

OP posts:

shouldwestayorshouldwego · 15/01/2019 19:15

If he is likely to get violent, especially as the dc get older and more likely to stand up to him, do you really want to be across the world while they are on holiday with him? Personally I would rather stay nearby.

MissMalice · 15/01/2019 19:19

Based on what you’ve written so far I’d say you don’t have the strongest chance but if you’re sure it’s the right thing then see what your solicitor says.

A vague notion of a better life won’t convince a court. You would be removing them from their home, their father, other relatives who have regular contact, presumably school and friends too.

TeacupDrama · 15/01/2019 20:01

i think grandparents/ extended family seeing kids once a week is above average and would be considered by a court to be frequent and regular contact.

I don't think a court in the UK or Scandinavia is going to buy the better life or education in Asia, as well as what Miss Malice said taking them away from friends, school both sets of grandparents ( or other family)

I do not think anyone would think the Father was unreasonable in not consenting to his 2 boys moving thousands of miles away

be careful what you say to the boys as you don't want to be accused of parental alienation

the only way it will happen is you agreeing in advance to fly them back to Europe at your expense and you accompanying them and then coming back to take them out there again, 3 times plus a year

Original poster

ohyesohyessyyesyes · 15/01/2019 20:35

Thanks for the advice, such a depressing read.
Gutted.
We are quite poor here due to the high cost of living esp housing. Would they take that into account?
Plus my kids are not doing well in school and I am not able to support on the level I’d like due to language issues and not really understanding the school system here. The dad is not interested in education and therefore limited help in this respect.
I think I am effectively trapped. Probably the solicitor will tell me the same.
Personally, I am not sure I can last this out until my kids are old enough to live by themselves. It’s like a prison sentence.

OP posts:

MissMalice · 15/01/2019 20:49

Why not try to move back to your family in the UK? Also you just said (I think) that you planned to return to and retire in your current country - so no, cost of living wouldn’t really work, nor would education if you’re planning to interrupt it for 2 years and then return.

I suspect you have options, just not the ones you like most.

Original poster

ohyesohyessyyesyes · 15/01/2019 21:18

I think I would run into the same problems.

The kids have never lived there. Neither have since many years before they were born.

Also, I don’t think teaching in the uk is the right thing to do for someone trying to improve their quality of life (largely based on threads I’ve read on here)...

OP posts:

Flip

1 2