Divorce/ Mediation? Financial support

[nostaples]

Hi, recently separated from my husband. Married 5 years and together nearly 20. Two children, in their mid teens, who live with me full time but see their father a few times a week.

We've not talked about divorce yet and I don't want to bring it up as at the moment exdh is still paying into our joint account and funding his own flat out of his own personal account.

Just wondering what financial situation I would be if/when it comes to divorce.

I currently earn nearly as much as dh but it's taken me a long time to get there. I've had years being part-time.

We have about 70,000 left on the mortgage of the family home which would sell for about 350,000. DH has a senior teacher's pension and he was planning to retire at 60 (he's currently 55). Me too but mine is much less as I didn't start teaching until I was older and I'm younger.

As I understand it, I can be made to sell the family home when the children are no long dependent (21 or older, they both plan to go to university?). Will this be split 50/50? And what about dh's pension? Would he still contribute to the dcs' university fees etc after divorce or does he only need to pay child maintenance.

Thanks in advance. Am completely in the dark about these things and the separation is very new and raw.

Thanks all - so much to think about. I consider myself quite a competent person having worked all my life and been reasonably financially savvy but divorce was not in the game plan - I was actually planning for paying off the mortgage and retiring within 5 years! I think that whereas we have paid roughly half into the house over the years, his pension will be quite a lot better than mine as I'm younger, took longer to get into teaching and took mat leave and went back part-time when the children were younger. I think the best thing would be for him to give me more of the assets from the house, especially since the children live with me and the youngest is 14, in return for me not touching his pension. TBH he hasn't mentioned money at all yet and is still paying into our joint account (as far as I know as he's been gone less than a month so next payment is not due for a while). Think he's too busy enjoying or pretending to enjoy his new single life pursuing lots of women etc. Just want to plan ahead and protect myself and the children.

NBR, as Isdads says pension contributions are family income, whilst in the marriage so far to split at divorce.An example is Ex insisted he made large payments into his pension despite family income being tight at times, I however paid every penny of my income into the family pot.The rationale was that he had generous employer matching whereas I did not and the intention was to have a joint pension at retirement.

The issue with your settlement is not marriage but that you remained linked to a man who didn't contribute.Your settlement should have reflected your children's costs on your Form E.

For context, I was the larger earner and had amassed assets before marriage so have "lost" despite having a legal agreement pre marriage. The purpose of marriage is that it is an equal partnership supporting each other. What if you had an illness during the marriage or been out of work?

Did you have a full hearing? As all the info would have been laid out (not sure how much a judge actually reads however).

I do agree it is tougher for women due to workplace inequality (as gender pay is highlighting) and taking time out of the workplace. My Ex will never take a day off for dc illness, plus he travels so it will never be possible for me to resume to a full career I had

Woman are always much worse off financially post divorce but we tend to be happier
Selfish, self centred men never change so know that you are much better off.

Thanks @lifebegins50 we've not even begun divorce proceedings yet and I don't think there will be any benefit to me to kick things off as he's still contributing to the mortgage and the children. It's his second marriage so I don't think he'll be in a hurry to do it again and neither will I. Think it's best to wait until we've been separated 2 years. At the moment he only needs a small flat as he's basically spending all his time at the gym or chasing women.

I think you need realise it's highly likely you will need to start to seek up when your youngest is in 2nd year at uni. I would certainly tell the DC that at the moment that is what you expect to happen.

Although DC generally move out much older the reality is you will have to downsize and they could share a large double room. That element of "there will always be a bed for you with me". It may mean one of lives with their Dad but as adults it's isn't your responsibility to provide their childhood bedroom for them.

I’m wondering how you think these student offspring will be able to support themselves without any parental support. The government funding is really based on a big parental contribution and the unis are pretty much expecting people to stump up. I think support at this stage is just as important as in the early years, albeit at a distance.

As a parent you are expected to support in cold hard cash!!! If they stay local saves ££££££ if they live at home...

I just want the op to be aware that if her ex pushes it the courts currently will force sale when youngest is 18!

I don't agree with it but that is the reality at the moment.

Presumably they could sell up and each buy a 2 bed therefore there is a room for each adult child...

I see the same thing posted over and over again with regard to 18 year old uni students. I understand all of it, but every time I read it, I have this hypothetical conversation in my head with my 18 year old who started uni in September and lives at home with me. This is how it goes:

"DS, I know you are only 18, and I really want you to be able to continue your education and realise your dream of being a XXXXX. However, the legal system has made in clear that you are an adult, and as such are responsible for your own life choices. So, as I will be unable to house you if I have to sell our home, and your DF does not want to house you, you will have to make a choice. Either add £30,000 to your student debt and take the maximum maintenance loan available to you (making a grand total of £57,000 of debt by the time you are 21) whilst you continue to try and better your life, or you can choose to drop out and go and work as a shelf stacker in tescos, which means that your life choices will be limited in the future. I'm really sorry about this, but I am going to be financially raped by your DF and have very few choices myself. It's ok though, because the judge says you are not relevant in our divorce proceedings. You do understand this, don't you?"

I’m wondering how you think these student offspring will be able to support themselves without any parental support

Some manage. Some of my younger relatives got through University even though both parents were unemployed.

Yes but I am not unemployed and nor is my STBEX. @JugglingABoxOfFrogs is 100% correct. They don’t stop being your kids at 18 and I have not supported them all this way to abandon them. I’m happy to support my children but I don’t see why it should be me alone - they have two parents. Financially raped is the correct discription. I guess this is just a law to suit utterly selfish individuals who are happy to ditch their kids and waltz off into the blue with their ex’s money. I have nurtured my kids, they are really my only priority from now on and I won’t be booting them onto the streets.

Yes but I am not unemployed and nor is my STBEX

How does that change the fact that some Students get through University without help from parents?

However, the legal system has made in clear that you are an adult, and as such are responsible for your own life choices. So, as I will be unable to house you if I have to sell our home

That sums up well what two different Judges said in my Divorce.

Ex argued that she needed enough money to support her daughter though University and buy a 3 bedroom house. One bedroom each for; herself, our son and her 22 year old daughter from a previous relationship. Judge stated instantly:

"Your daughter is 22 and responsible for herself. She chose of her own free will to go University and as such takes on the responsibility of supporting herself. The whole point on student loans is that it enables all young people to attend University if they so wish as opposed to being limited only to young people who have well off parent.

Regarding your request for sufficient capital for a 3 bedroom house I would ask that if your Daughter chose to live elsewhere would you sell the 3 bedroom house, move into a 2 bedroom house and refund your Ex husband the difference in cost between the 2 houses?"

Ex never replied.

Clearly the judges are not aware that most students cannot borrow enough to pay for their own accommodation and do not have enough free time to earn their entire year’s keep. The government is expecting a parental contribution - the universities are also clearly expecting this these days. The situation has become extreme since the fees went up to £9,250 a year.

I actually don’t see why you should pay for a step child but your own child is different. Also, 22 is different from 18 - when they are just starting out.

Most parents do go on helping their children throughout their lives one way and another - including the many grandparents who provide free childcare at least on an ad hoc basis. You don’t raise kids to cut them off at 18 - decent parents don’t anyway.

At the same time as expecting my children to be cut off and left destitute the courts seem to expect me to provide for a man I will no longer be married to even in his old age via my pension. Such warped values.

To NBR

My Ex used the 22 year old step daughter merely as a way of trying to get more capital. Should have seen her face at Final Hearing when my Barrister produced from the hearing bundle an email from Stepdaughter to myself that stated she had no desire or intention to live with her mother!

Whacking up the University Fees to £9,250 a year was a scandal in my view. Okay there are Student Loans available, but I would not be surprised if they are stopped in the future when Government realizes that in many cases the money will not be fully repaid.

Grandparents provide invaluable help when Children are young. Saves parents a fortune in Childcare costs.

As your marriage was long and your ex is the weaker earner then yes he may be entitled to part of your pension. However, as Court Order has not yet been made you might be in for a surprise and it may not be as one sided as you seem to have already concluded?

The point about the fees is it’s fine to have a loan for the fees but on top of that there are the living costs. Hall fees themselves are often £7k to £9k then there are books, clothes, transport and some entertaining etc, maybe food depending whether it’s catered or not. A hard-working student with a good job in the summer might earn £2k to £3k. My child is only able to borrow £3k from student finance England for maintenance. Those on academic courses don’t have much time for work as well. So where does the difference come from? Parents.

I don’t know if a court will be fairer because I can’t afford to get to that stage - maybe I will have to. Marriage has had NO benefit for me or my children. A man is trying to steal from us to pay prostitutes. This is financial abuse.

In my case it’ll be “sorry DS and DD, you will have to live on the streets because now I am ill and your father has spent money for your education on prostitutes, sorry about that, I do love you and would do anything for you - anything at all - but this scum bag doesn’t give a flying duck.

To NBR

Something or someone kept you in a marriage for 22 years. Most would have divorced long before that if what you say about your ex is correct.

Once you are in it you can’t leave without paying out, can you? You are shackled.

By the way, the thing about very nasty evil people is they don’t advertise their vices. They put on a good front, don’t they. If they started out presenting their real front nobody would fall for them.

To NBR

I know some whose marriages were over before a year had passed. They would have divorced sooner had there not been a requirement to have been married for a year before they could file for divorce.

Was your marriage arranged? Previous posts suggest there was pressure from relatives?

By the way, the thing about very nasty evil people is they don’t advertise their vices. They put on a good front, don’t they

Exactly! And sometimes, but the time you realise that you are actually married to a narcopath (which I was) you are in such a weakened mental state that it's hard to see the woods for the trees.

Abuse isn't always about physical violence and it's more accepted now that the emotional abuse is more like a dripping tap, or like putting a frog in a pan of cold water and watching it die as the water gets hotter and boils. It's often not a simple case of "I'm not happy so I'm leaving". There are people (like me, stupidly) who keep trying because we took our vows seriously.

Not arranged but from a very traditional family who believed it was proper to be married and wouldn’t have been, are not, supportive of divorcing.

And, I realise that this thread has gone completely off topic. Apologies to the OP.

I also kept trying and took my vows seriously. This isn’t my thread so I shouldn’t really be hogging it. Just a very bad day.