DD said she doesn't want to go to Dad

[MummySharkDooDooDooDoo]

DD1 is only 4. Me and her Dad have been separated for 18 months. He has them every other weekend but last year he wasn't overly reliable. This year he has been better but in the past month or so he hasn't been as interested. DD1 said he's shouted at her a few times. This week I asked him to help me out with a few drop offs as my parents are away, but when he collected DD2 it descended into an argument where I called him out for not doing enough and he criticised me for apparently not doing enough (I have them on my own the vast majority of the time but my parents have them one night a week and help with pick ups and drop offs - my parents do more than he does). Anyway, he was shouting at me in my house in front of the DDs and I suspect it might be this that has triggered DD1 telling me she doesn't want to go to Daddy this weekend. I asked her why and she said she misses me and just wants to stay with me. I don't know what to do because he has a right to see them, and she's only 4 so is she old enough to make this decision herself? Ultimately I know I can't stop contact anyway, but I just feel so bad for her that she's having to go and see him if she doesn't want to.

I don't know how to deal with this. He's a bully and I felt he was bullying and attacking me the other day. It felt like when we were together and it was horrible. I hate the thought of him being like that towards DDs.

Does anyone have any advice?

Do you have a court order?

No. It's always just been arranged between us and, as he had been better earlier this year, it was working ok.

She’s 4, she’s not old enough to make an adult decision on contact.

He needs to pull his socks up by the sounds of things.

You shouldn’t of argued in front of your daughter. It could be a loyalist thing with her - siding with you and saying she wants to stay with you.

Contact is for the benefit of children, not parents.

Formalise contact - get a contact order so you both know where you stand.

It was him who instigated the argument. In fact, I didn't really say much back, just that he had no right to judge what I do when he does the bare minimum. He started shouting at me pretty much as soon as he arrived and, I'm ashamed to say that I couldn't stop myself from crying, which I know I shouldn't have done in front of the girls.

My understanding from my solicitor is that child contact arrangements are now only made through the court if there is a safeguarding issue or if he parties don't agree. He is having them the amount he is supposed to but he's always asking me to swap, getting his sister to have them one of the nights instead, or asking me to do the one school pick up a week he's supposed to do. So it's not that he's not sticking to the agreement, as such, it's more that he doesn't prioritise the minimal contact he does have with them. I'm not sure if I've misunderstood the court order though.

As for contact being for the benefit of the children, that's my point exactly. If DD isn't wanting to go, if she's coming back and saying he shouted at her, then is that really benefitting her?

Your solicitor is wrong. Child contact arrangements aren’t only made through the courts if there is a safeguarding issue.

In the majority of cases, fathers apply to the court when the mother stops contact.

A 4 year old does not have the maturity to make the decision to stop contact. It’s well proven that children benefit from having a realationship with both parents. If you aren’t happy with contact - get it formalised.

My OH has a contact order (no safeguarding issues, a very bitter EX who would stop contact to ‘punish’ my now OH).

He draws up the schedule in December for the year ahead and there is no changing it. The mother wouldn’t anyway - she’s completely inflexible. Everyone knows where they stand.

It's not that I'm not happy with contact. I would like him to see them more as then I think they would feel more settled with him but I can't force him to. But my main issue is the way he is towards them and how that's making DD1 feel.

I do appreciate that she's too young to make that decision, it just makes me feel really crap that she doesn't want to go but still has to. I just wondered if anyone had any suggestions for what I could do to make it easier for her - should I talk to him about it?

I defended him to her all of last year. Every time he let them down I made excuses and minimised it to protect her feelings and their relationship. I want them to have a positive relationship with their Dad. It just doesn't seem like he does.

MummySharkDooDooDooDoo don’t worry about Northern, her agenda across threads involving dads and contact is vast and extremely one sided. I wouldn’t take too much notice.

He needs to not be aggressive, ever towards you or your DDs. Don’t force contact, but don’t stop it either iyswim?

She’s 4, she’s telling you loud and clear how she feels and she needs to be heard.

Thank you YeTalk. That's exactly what I'm thinking - she's telling me how she feels and if I don't listen to her then is she going to think her opinion and feelings don't matter?

It doesn't mean to say that she should get to decide to stop contact because she is still little and her decision can't be entirely informed. But I need her to know that she's heard and that her feelings do matter.

It doesn't mean to say that she should get to decide to stop contact because she is still little and her decision can't be entirely informed. But I need her to know that she's heard and that her feelings do matter.

Totally agree with this. I’d take it one contact visit at a time tbh, and it’s up to him to work to improve his relationship with her. If he’s any kind of parent, he will.

DS1 stopped seeing his dad for a while because he was always shouting at me at pick up and drop offs. He sees him EOW now, most times he goes (it’s court ordered) sometimes he decides not to.

I really really hate the logic that kids shouldn’t be listened to when they’re upset or afraid, it’s bullshit.

Im with @YeTalkShiteHen and am a firm believer that a child shouldn't be forced to have contact with the absent parent if they can articulate why they don't want to. It's down to the absent parent to do whatever it takes to make them comfortable in visiting them again - not the main career to force them into doing something that is upsetting them.

It's down to the absent parent to do whatever it takes to make them comfortable in visiting them again - not the main career to force them into doing something that is upsetting them.

This. Absolutely this.

Thanks @YeTalkShiteHen I was that kid that hates seeing my absent father aggressive and bullying. He started to turn it on me when I got upset and didn't want to see him anymore. My mum never forced us instead despite the way he treated her she talked to exh and asked him to just come and take us to the the park for an hour, write us a letter about how he was feeling, come and take us for tea but unless we were going for the whole weekend on his terms he said my dm was poisoning us and controlling us. Needless to say that now as an adult I've seen his behaviour continue and escalate for years and now have absolutely no contact with him.

OP I would suggest formalising your agreement in court. That way you do have recourse when your ex is a bully. I can't imagine how hard it is to be the parent in this situation but please don't force your kids into doing something when they can articulate why they don't want to. Find and encourage another way.

GiraffeObsessedBaby fwiw I’m sorry you had to go through that.

It was pretty shit but my mum is amazing and I have an awesome step dad and it's made me stronger now. Now I am a mum myself I can't imagine what it's like being the parent in that situation - I honestly would want to grab my kids and run far away from someone like that but know that you've got to be strong for your kids. Makes me in awe of how my mum dealt with it!

GiraffeObsessedBaby your Mum and stepdad sound ace!

I’m very grateful that DS1 has DP as a father figure, and my dad too. Because for some reason his own dad just can’t be arsed. I had to tell him to prove there were lightbulbs in DS1s room a few months ago before I’d let him go back, because he’d spent an entire weekend in the dark! (The blind is gaffer taped to the window for some reason and he’s not allowed to touch it). It beggars belief.