Is this how divorces go nowadays?

[DoinItForTheKids]

Hi

I got divorced 11 years ago now. DH at the time was v slow to respond but he submitted accurate financial disclosure and unless I've erased it from my mind, we only ever had one sitting before a judge and it was all done with solicitors, no barristers were ever even suggested.

Fast forward to today and I'm seeing my dear friend (DFr) at work who is being divorced by her 'D'H at the moment. He failed initial financial disclosure, then it was found his solicitor isn't even part of the SRA so that's being investigated, he's been directed to reply with his full financial disclosure by something like 25 August and again has completely failed to do so. So far DFr has been before the judge for the initial hearing which I believe was when it was discovered his FD was a work of fantasy and everyone was ordered away to regroup and he was directed to get his act together and submit accurate £££s.

He's then missed the deadline of 25 August which was the second chance for him to submit it.

Now what I don't understand is this. I thought barristers came into cases where there was some point of law that only their highly specialised knowledge of case law could address - we're talking a fairly unextraordinary divorce here, no businesses, no vast swathes of property and masses of gigantic pensions just two people each with a job each with a pension who each used to own a house except that it's my DFr who bought it and paid the mortgage. The only 'out of the ordinary' thing is that he's overseas. It sounds like he literally got his divorce 'lawyer' from the side of the road.

So my question is:
Why the barrister involvement
The first hearing seems to have cost her £5000 (Christ knows how)
And now she's looking like she'll have to attend another hearing (to which he won't show and for which I guarantee he won't have provided disclosure or if he does it will be lies and fabrication) which will again be a complete waste of time and cost her another £5000,
Every phone call she has she says costs her £200 (for say 20 mins half an hour, this being with the solicitor not the barrister) - does that sound right (Midlands)?

I'd be so grateful to understand why the need for repeated hearings, with barristers, when one party hasn't disclosed yet (and likely never will)?

Can she ask for it to go straight to final hearing before it even gets there??

She's so utterly defeated today the poor thing, I feel so sorry for her.

Mine cost me £10k last year. My ex was an abusive arsehole who went out of his way to make it as difficult as possible. He has a lifetime restraining order in place and knew he would be able to intimidate me in court. It was horrific.

Currently mid divorce. ExH also dicked about with his financial declaration. However my solicitor just sent a couple of threats of court order to chivvy him along.
Barristers have never been involved or mentioned.
At no point have I or will I sit in a hearing or in front of a judge. I've had 2 meetings with my solicitor and then everything's been done by email and post.

£5K to get from issued to First Directions Appointment sounds normal.

Barristers are often used. It is often cheaper to use one than for the solicitor to go. Some solicitors hate advocacy, some (like me) love it but can't manage the time out of the office because it is very disruptive when you have clients that can't seem to get through a morning without bending your ear : I am currently cursed with a ton of them and I can't turn my back for half a day without half of them losing their shit and whining to my colleague. So I am briefing everything at present, It's not worth the hassle to have the fun of a court outing.

If she doesn't understand the proceedings, her solicitors should explain. If she thinks they are overcharging, she should consider looking elsewhere.

Thank you both. Hmmm, so really not understanding then why she's racking up the costs she is. I've no idea if it's in any way reasonable or not.

Her 'D'H is a bit of a nasty shit although I'm not sure to what exact extent. I'm sure he's chortling at how he's stringing this out for her. She was pretty sure it would all be done by Xmas but now she's found out he's missed the 2nd deadline and she's heading for another £5k hearing she's distraught that it's going to drag on into next year by the looks of things.

I'm just baffled by the process and the people involved. It's so hard to know if she's being led up the 'let's rack up as much fees as we possibly can' path or not.

Sorry x posted MrsBert.

I see what you're saying it's just she doesn't know how she's going to afford it - I mean, how many times will they keep going back to the judge at £5k a time for someone who consistently isn't even making a half hearted attempt at providing their financial disclosure? (sorry, not having a go at you MrsBert, it just seems like madness to me).

Can the Judge make him pay her costs as its him who is time wasting

Can she do that Fishes?!??

I don't know how to support her, it all seems totally barmy to me!

Yes, It's madness. If he turns up next time without having done his stuff, her lawyers can seek an order that he pay those costs.

£5K should be for a lot more work than just the hearing though. Is that what she has paid in total?

He doesn't turn up at all - he's not made an appearance yet and she doesn't even know if he's in the country here in the UK or still in the country he lives in overseas (which with what I think is a bit of a DV history, he is probably enjoying her not knowing). The shit.

I'd have to check with her MrsBert. She has had the one hearing, all the initial advice, support through her doing her own FD form, which was £5k and then she's facing another £5k for the next hearing... I'm not sure if that would just go straight to the judge making a decision since it must be clear that 'D'H has no intention of playing fair, providing any accurate info or even turning up in person.

She spoke to her Sol today and it was for no more than 30 minutes and she said that she'd get a charge of £200 for that - it seems high to me but perhaps he's £400 an hour....

I'm not sure how much the fact he's used a sol who's not in the SRA (and potentially not a properly qualified solicitor) is going to affect things as there's some kind of investigation (?) into that going on and I don't know how that will affect things.

The guy really is an absolute shite (the 'D'H). DFr is clearly really nervous of him turning up in court, I get the impression he was a bit of a nasty bastard and it would be pretty traumatic for her to be in the same room with him. Personally I don't think he will turn up, he's just being a you know what and pretending he wants access to the DD age 2 he's never seen, paid towards or anything. She knows he's undercooked his income - he works in a senior role in one of the countries of the world that's known for high earnings for ex pats.

Divorce as a means of exerting control 101 me thinks.

My Divorce cost about £35K as took almost 2 years to complete. Ex went through 4 different law firmsand dragged it on and on as they did not want the divorce to happen. 3 Cost Orders awarded in my favour due to hearings being aborted and re-schedule due to Ex failure to comply with Court Orders and producing documents day before hearings so that my advisers did not have time to review.

Solicitor charged £150/hour. Barrister £400/hour.

Holy Jesus.

A scenario like that would financially ruin my friend. That makes me very worried for her.

A scenario like that would financially ruin my friend.

Hopefully your friend can settle amicably with not too much legal costs. Once the courts become involved costs can rise rapidly. In my case costs were;

To FDA £9K
3 Aborted MPS Hearings £9K
Pointless FDR £8K
Final Hearing £8K for Ex Wife and £2K for myself.
Total £35K

Wiped out most of my redundancy payment.

There will be no amicable settlement, her husband is an abusive controlling arse. she will probably end up having to sell the home she lives in and moved to a one bedroom flat in order just to pay the fees or she will go under. in the meantime she could run out of credit card capacity which is where she is currently having to put all of her solicitor fees.

Sisters ex, 30 years ago, moved abroad and swore an affidavit to the effect that he was penniless. She was left with their child to raise, which she did amazingy, and no maintenance because the then CSA said they couldn’t persue someone living overseas.

She's never had maintenance either but he's in a country with no reciprocal arrangements for CM so I don't think she ever will.

I still don't understand the need for £5,000 a time hearings before a judge when one of the parties hasn't even submitted information.

I still don't understand the need for £5,000 a time hearings before a judge when one of the parties hasn't even submitted information

Courts, Solicitors and Barristers will charge for their time even if the hearings are adjourned due to failure of one or both of the Parties.

However, Judges at Final Hearing have the power to make cost awards.

My DH ex wife was the one who hid assets... lied on the forms and over calculated spending. They went to court and spent thousands.

My settlement was easy ... no dramatics nothing ... I guess it was down to me and my ex not being greedy and listening to each other opinions.

It seems so unfair that the person being divorced by somebody else when the person doing the divorcing refuses to cooperate with the process that they themselves requested, ends up having to pay £5,000 a time to turn up somewhere knowing that the person who's divorcing them will not have provided the details regardless even of if they are accurate honest or not!

To DoinItForThe Kids,

Courts have power to award cost orders against time wasters. I had 3 cost orders in my favour due to adjourned hearings. Ex did not pay them at the time, but Judge at Final Hearing took them into account when the made the Financial Settlement Order. Ex had her settlement reduced by about £20K to reflect my costs and the house and car I paid for during the 2 year process. So initially it may look as you are forced into paying for someone to waste time, but it will come out in the end all be it irritating at the time.

My settlement was easy ... no dramatics nothing ... I guess it was down to me and my ex not being greedy and listening to each other opinions.*

That's the way couples should approach divorce. If one or both make it a contest or try to hide assets the process will drag on and on and legal fees will escalate. £35K in my case. All it did was to reduce the pot that was available for courts to split.

I would have rather given the money to Ex wife and DS, but out of anger (she did not want the divorce), revenge (claimed I was seeing someone else, but never produced any evidence), greed (wanted to maintain previous lifestyle whilst I became homeless) she turned it into a contest. The only winner was the Legal profession.

I do agree with you and in many ways this is what's so annoying about this situation. It's not her that's stalling out of spite for getting divorced by him; he's divorcing her but he's the one dragging his feet, lying and wasting time.

I didn't have dramatics from my divorce - just someone taking ages to respond and needing constant chasing letters came to £10k but at least I know that on selling the house I'd have enough to re-house me and the kids and was already aware I'd have to move location and to a much smaller and less fancier home. I also know that this money would be left over after paying both for the divorce and paying off the general debts I'd invariably collected during the divorce period.

DFr is still holding on to the idea that she can keep her current home and I fear that whilst in your reassuring example Missed, at some point it will all come good for her, him being overseas makes me concerned for even that to happen but even if it does, she couldn't keep going for two years if twice a year she has a £5k bill to contend with.

I spent around £24k with lawyers. I had a senior lawyer up thru the first financial hearing. I was by then divorced but finances not settled. There were then three further hearings while my X dicked around. I ceased using lawyers after the original financial hearing and represented myself, assisted by a Makenzie friend, who was great help. All the hearings are done to try to encourage you to settle.
With your friend, and an ex pat Husband, I think there is little likelihood of getting any money out of him, so she should look at divorcing as cheaply as possible. £5k to represent you at a hearing is too much, she could go herself, especially if she is pretty certain that her ex is not complying. (I sacked lawyers when they asked for £3k just for MEETING a barrister -ye God’s!) It took me 4 years to get a Final Order ( this is essential) but I only spent £1500.

Yes, I fear Moanranger that she's going to be bankrupted if this carries on. I'm absolutely sure he's set out to be as big a c*nt as he can be and put her through as much distress as possible. I believe she's got the divorce already and it's just the finance stuff.

I guess they can't 'settle' in the way that's preferred as he simply won't engage, tell the truth and she's pretty sure he's making out he's piss-poor when he's not.

I'll ask her to look into this as I'm not sure what capacity she's got on her credit cards any more - I think it would actually reduce her stress rather than add to it - if it's going to take say two years more then £5k every 6 months say just wouldn't be tenable would it. Be alright if she had a high value house with hardly any mortgage left but she hasn't - and he's after as much of the house as he can get as well, cheeky fecker when he's not had one single thing to do with that child and paid nothing towards her.

There are Barristers charging all levels of fees. The key is to find a whiz baby barrister who has recently finished pupillage at a reputable Family Law Chambers. They really do not cost the Earth.

However if the money is very complex and the couple are high net worth, the Chambers will shunt you up the food chain. For a client with insufficient funds, baby barrister every time. £1000 a day is more realistic. Solicitor doesn’t need to be present so no money for them on that day. £400 an hour is very high so getting a more junior junior is the way to go.

MacKenzie friends can be truly awful. Unqualified and not up to date. Be very careful. Also be careful of barristers not belonging to a Chambers.