How you present your relationship with your ex to the kids without lying

[southernharp]

I have read all the stuff about being positive about your ex to the kids otherwise they will feel guilty about their relationship with him and bad about themselves because of an similarities with him. But I am not one to hide my feelings and my kids know That. We have some pretty open conversations about other relationships in my life. But I flounder when it comes to their dad. He cheated on me and lied and humiliated me in the community where we lived. He tried to get me fired and is a rude and unrepentant twat of the highest order. He pays very little for the kids - the odd pair of pjs - and yet flounces around like he is father of the year. Obviously I am not saying this to the kids and I know that there is a need to present him and his rude girlfriend (ow and ex friend) in a positive light, but I don't know how to sustain this. Any tips?

When you bad mouth a parent, you bad mouth the children.

Yes, it’s hard but you need to keep your feelings to yourself.

I’m now a DSM. My OH’s EW is extremely rude vitriolic and angry, even 5 years post divorce. She regularly screems and swears at the dad in front of the kids. My OH never retaliates and we never bad mouth the mum in front of the kids.

Her behaviour has stated to come back to bite her. My OH was at parents evening for his youngest recently (he’s 10). The mum saw my OH and shouted out ‘you can f&ck off’ (the son was with her). She was pulled to one side by a teacher. The son said to us recently ‘mummy isn’t very nice to you and it upsets me’. I know this behaviour is extreme but it does affect kids.

Actually this wasn't what I was asking. I know this and to be honest this response has a sense of a lecture about it. I am not stupid.. I am not bad mouthing him to the kids. I simply want tips from others who have lived this on phrasing things carefully and engaging in a neutral fashion. I very much do not welcome so called advice from a new partner who appears to know nothing.

And 'DSM', this woman is the mother of the children, not you. I suggest that you refrain from bad mouthing her on the internet.

Perhaps avoid talking about him as much as physically possible? Keep conversations with the kids about him to what the kids are doing with him, how their day was with them etc.

It also depends how old the kids are. If they're teens I would perhaps be honest while not attributing blame. Simple statements like 'He cheated' when explaining why the relationship ended or 'He hasn't given you money for that' say all you need to about the situation without criticism, blame etc.

It's not easy.

I have several stock phrases to cope with this
Your Dad and I split up because we were not making each other happy and there were complex adult reasons for that (he had an affair, introduced OW to you three days after he left, but I am not confirming that he had an affair his own behaviour makes that clear)
I can understand why you feel like that, in response to DD saying she doesn't like OW who is an alcoholic who it later turned out was verbally abusing DD.
The only time I have been brutally honest was when OW's daughter was taken into care and I had to tell DD that although she had not had over night contact for 18 months it would definitely not be happening as social services have decided that her Dad and OW were not fit to have a child reside with them. Despite the spin her Dad having put on it of how it was a good thing that OW'sDD had been taken into care.

I say very little; simply "that's nice" or "oh really?" When informed about ex and OW. It's ramping up now however as ex an OW are now married and OW is letting her mask slip and starting to be unpleasant to my DD so I shall be extremely watchful. I think as long as the kids are happy it's possible to keep a lid on it but once they're not it's a whole different ballgame.

I, too, have stock phrases similar to Lonecat's first one. Relationships sometimes don't work out, it's nobody's fault, we both love you more than anything, your father is a complete and utter fuckwit, an emotional, physical and financial abuser, a crap father, and it's not surprising two wives have left him

It's very hard, though.

I think it is incredibly difficult but I don't think you have to be positive if it isn't true.
I haven't managed it at times in all honesty, however Ex has been truly awful post separation so I haven't been able to hide the impact of his behaviour to dc. He is also angry with them so they often talk to me about him and ways they can cope.How he treated you will be how he treats the dc in the long term.

I think it does depend on the dc ages as mine are older so I can label his behaviour and let them know it's not ok to behave like that. I think the adage about labelling the behaviour rather than the person is a good approach.

Ex feigns poverty but the dc know that his latest toys are expensive so they realise he isn't telling the truth.

I tend to say positive stuff when it arises, such as your Dad is good at cycling, because it is true, but I can't say he is a good man because that isn't true.I also recognise good behaviours in others, so they have role models.

If the dc are old enough they will know their dad had an affair and that is not acceptable behaviour in any situation.

My dc seem to manage to know that they can love their dad but accept his behaviour is often not good which means he can be very unlikeable at times.

I would never be abusive to Ex, infront of dc or behind his back because I have higher standards and I think holding yourself to a higher standard than your Ex, will in the long run make you feel better.

Deadbeat dads will never have a good relationship with their children which is priceless so you will be better off in the long run.

2 years down the line my dc have worked out Ex for themselves, my youngest made a comment to a friend that surprised me as he is able to recognise poor behaviour without writing off the whole person, it is referred to as object constancy.

Without hijacking this thread, I have the problem in that I am on the receiving end of STBX wife's 'chats' with 7 year old daughter - who comes to me afterwards and whispers "mum told me you hate her", "mum told me you took her away from her family", "mum told me she left having fun behind when she married you", "mum told me you stopped us from buying a house with a garden and trampoline".

Apart from never involving my child in the reasons for the divorce and all the $hitty adult stuff, I struggle how to respond in such circumstances. If they were older, I would find it easier, but at their age, it requires more sensitivity. Silver lining and all that - it makes me happy that my daughter can come to me with stuff that's troubling her.

@auberJohn, at 7 she will be too young to understand but certainly if you act kindly/respectfully towards your Ex your dd will learn the reality.

For questions such as the garden you can say "your mum and I made decisions jointly when we were together" if that was the case or "we could not afford it at the time".

Age appropriate answers which you would give naturally if you were together and your dd asked "why don't we have a garden?"

Children do work out the truth quite early on and a good parent isn't going to be alienated because the instinct to love a parent, especially non resident parent is very strong.
Often some parents are in denial that it is their behaviour that causes dc to question the parent and it easier to blame the resident or other parent.

In my situation Ex refuses to take any responsibility for his actions and is in total denial despite the children's counsellors input and cafcass saying his anger causes his dc to lose trust in him. He will claim he is not volatile but everyone close to him knows he is explosive, scary and unpredictable. At times he can be fine which is why dc will see him but they have learnt to avoid his moods.

I remember my youngest texting me late at night when with Ex, to tell me how Ex was behaving. It was heart breaking as I couldn't help him other than reassure him that he was not to blame and his Dad was behaving badly. Dc put a lock on his phone as fearful his dad would see the messages.
There is no way I could spin this positively other than say it is not acceptable but Ex would view that as bad mouthing him.
If I don't my dc will sleepwalk into abusive relationships as they will have no boundaries.

Thanks for the suggestions so far. I am keen that my daughter will n to articulate doesn't get sucked in a relationship with someone controlling or moody- I see a lot of me in her and it makes conversation about her his kind of thing tricky because it often sounds like I am talking about her dad.

My youngest has just excepted the situation. My eldest has a lot of questions.
I hope I am not causing them any more distress than they already have.
I have been honest said we love them both very much. But daddy doesn't love mummy anymore. He has ow now and that makes him happy and hopefully a better daddy. As he was very grumpy (EA) when he was at home.
I always ask if they had/will have a nice time at ex. And if appropriate say positive things about him if it comes up in conversation. But I can't stand the man. And have as little direct contact with him as possible. He thought we would remain friends and help each other out blah blah. I stopped being his friend the day he walked out and moved in with ow. And emptied my bank account. Etc etc.