The rubbish cheaters say and maintenance, division of assets etc

[Purplejay]

Hi all

A short recap.

Husband left at the begining of May. I found out he had been having an affair for a few weeks about 6 weeks before that. The affair is ongoing and she is now wearing the ‘girlfriend’ badge. He asks to come back about once a week but the answer is always no. He says if I say yes he will stop seeing her! That was supposed to happen in the 6 weeks before he left but he couldn’t do it. He ended it with her but then they were back in contact. This happened a couple of times. He even said that this time would be different because now she wouldn’t agree to going back to how things were i.e. sneaking about. So instead of being able to trust him, I must rely on her not allowing it to happen - I don’t think so!

We have an 11yo who after initially being very upset is handling jt very well. His Dad has an office here and is self employed. This has worked well so far as he is here for our son after school until I get home from work. As DS is seeing lots of both of us this has helped him adjust. H and I are mostly amicable. We get on better now in some ways than we have at times in the past, but other days I am just full of hurt and anger and loss. Our marriage wasn’t perfect but I was far from thinking we were done. My grief is not just about what he has done and my loss now but for our future together too. It takes some getting your head around.

Anyway, this week I told some more friends and 3 more people at work so I am well into double figures now. Initially I found it very hard to say out loud. I have booked a holiday for me and the boy (can’t wait) and we have most of a plan for sharing care over the summer holidays.

H and I have always had separate finances. I work full time and earn enough to pay the mortgage, bills, run a car and go on holiday once a year. There is little spare after that. The house is in my name (bought with equity from my previous house, money from mum who lived here before she died and a mortgage). I pay everything. H just contributed a weekly sum which basically paid the food bill with a bit left over, his paid a third of any holidays and occasionally bought household items (tv, sofas). Now he has left he can’t afford rent on his own and wouldn't get a mortgage. He contributes nothing to DS. He is self employed and not great with money. When he has spare it goes on the business. He buys and sells things. He has a lot of stuff.

When we met he had a good managerial job and then gave this up to go to uni. He now has a masters degree so combined with his previous work experience has better earning potential than me. He likes being his own boss though I am not sure he is cut out for it. He is rubbish with paperwork. I ended up going fulltime 2 years ago because he wasn’t contributing enough and I was spending savings (inheritance) just to live on.

I thought he has a pot of money too, also from inheritence and at one point we weret fairly even in terms of assets but it seems he has spent most of his and/or invested it badly. He has bought and sold shares at big losses. He has form for this, something he promised never to do again but there we are. He may be lying and have some squirreled away but somehow I doubt it.

I need to get some legal advice about finances but in your experience would a court take into account any of the following in considering a financial split?

• previous financial irresponsibility (kept secret)
• earning potential (as opposed to actual earnings)
• that finances had been kept separate throughout

I don’t think H will expect 50/50 for a minute as I am housing our son and the house was bought partly with my mums money (less so for this reason though) and mortgage has been paid by me. He thinks of it as my house. He had the option to buy in with his inheritance effectively paying off the mortgage and putting his name on the title but he didn’t want to and ultimately since spent/lost the money. It seems very unfair if I am the one who has worked hard to provide stability to find I have to sell up and give him half - which still wouldn’t be enough for him to buy out right. I wonder what the court would make of it all. Presume his business/stock will be classed as assets and he does have some pension which would be off set.

When do people start discussing this kind of thing? Is it done as part of divorce or sooner?

Gosh that was long 😳🤣

When you are married, finances are viewed as joint. Doesn’t matter who put what in, who paid what. They are joint.

The courts start at a 50:50 division and work back.

In answer to your questions - no the courts won’t take any of that into account. They look at current assets.

Oh no. I feel for you. The stupid bloody legal system will take no account of the fact you own your own house, have paid lose bills, have put in inherited money, he has wasted cash and contributed little. He’ll rip you off for half of all that if you don’t watch out. If he can cheat he can do this too. You are as trapped as I am - similar situation.

I know 50:50 is the starting point but doesn’t the parent with care usually get a bigger share to help with housing the child(ren)?

I just don’t see how in our circumstances 50:50 could be seen as equitable. Its not like H gave up a well paid job to stay at home and look after our son. I am the main carer and provider. He has chosen to work the way he does to suit himself.

I am not sure sometimes why I am so upset he has left. I suppose it is the betrayl of trust, the lies. When I think about our situation and how I felt the weight of responsibility and resented him for not using his degree and not caring to at least try to provide for our son - knowing I would move heaven and earth to do so, there is little wonder he thought I had gone off him. Somehow despite the fact that I might end up selling the house (I could probably remortgage if the split were 70/30 but anymore I would have to sell), it sometimes feels like a relief. So many emotions.

The OW has now asked him if there is a week free in the summer hols for them to go away. I can’t just take a week off at the drop of a hat as I have already spread some of my leave and booked odd days off here (and there and arranged some clubs/play dates) to enable him to work! They could go away when we do, give or take a couple of days either side too but will have to take the dogs and I am not sure that’s what she had in mind. He throws me with this stuff. I am upset although I am not really sure why. They have just had a 4 night break too and yet he ‘has no money’.

He was sad tonight. Sorry this has happened etc etc. Says he wished he had thought we could make a go of it (as he does now apparently) before making commitments to her (which stopped him from dumping her before)!? No idea what he thinks is different now, he just digs himself in deeper. She seems to think everything is done and dusted between us and we should all just get along - obviously having no clue about what he says here. What a great start to their relationship. In the begining I thought she had ‘won’ but really he is no great prize. Those thoughts still creep in though.

Notbeingrobbed -how far down the process are you? Have you taken legal advice? Started divorce proceedings? Will your H be reasonable?

I could just sit if out and wait for him to make the first move about divorce. Knowing him it will take him 5years! I can’t see him being in a hurry to remarry.

Could I give him any money now as part of any final settlement or would it just be seen as him being dependant on me?

Your story is much like mine - I have been the one always taking financial responsibility because he was not being responsible! He was wasting a lot of money and not saving any, I put the deposit on the house - proceeds from my own house, I have earned more, organised most things for the kids. Now I just seem to be penalised.

I’ve filed for divorce, next step Nisi then we will have to sort out finances. I will have to buy him out of my share of the house - no way am I making my kids leave their home. The youngest (early teens) never wants to see him again (and hasn’t done), the other has seen him three times in six months. He does not ask how they are.

The law stinks. I am hoping to negotiate the best settlement I can - which will still be a big financial loss for me - but I don’t know how it will turn out.

I am still reeling that on 2018 a married woman cannot own anything in her own right - it’s all joint property. I don’t think most people realise this and it is NOT made clear when you marry. What’s the point of having your name on an account or payslip? You are forever tethered to the waster until you can hand over the money to pay him off.

If I sound very bitter that’s because the law is utterly unjust.

I am still reeling that on 2018 a married woman cannot own anything in her own right - it’s all joint property.

The same applies to married men.

OP...be glad you can support yourself. He's no great loss and he and the OW can live in poverty or she can support him.

To OP

My divorce similar situation to yours. Ex (wife) was a waster and I paid for everything, but as NothernSpirit has pointed out Courts don't take that into account.

Suggest you try and settle amicably. If you involve the courts legal costs can be huge. In my case divorce took almost 2 years and 35%+ of family assets were consumed in legal costs.

Courts have almost unlimited powers when it comes to Settlements and will take into account what they consider is in child's best interests. Possible they make a decision that neither partner likes.

As you work full time and your husband is Self Employed there is an argument that he should be the main carer as he is more able to work around the child's school hours?

Even if you are main carer that does not compel the courts to award you a higher share of assets. If you have been the higher earning throughout the marriage there is argument that your husband should receive a larger share?

If I sound very bitter that’s because the law is utterly unjust

Women fought many years for equal rights and eventually achieved their goal. Nothing in the Law that states women are entitled to a more favourable divorce settlement than men.

Please feel free to correct me if I am worng

Why worry if he hasn’t said he wants half of the house?

You can divorce online cheaply and quickly

You need to take legal advice ASAP. Doing it while your child is dependent may mean you get more assets. Doing it whilst you are younger means you can get a longer term mortgage to buy him out, every year that goes by means your borrowing potential decreases.

See a solicitor this week without telling him, knowledge is key.

To 43percentburnt

I agree that OP should seek advice ASAP and the borrowing potential logic, but not the bit about not telling husband. Advantage of keeping other partner in loop is they can't accuse of not being informed.

The existence of a dependent child does not mean that the Mother will receive a higher share of assets. It seems in this case that the OP was the higher earner during the marriage which may work in favour of husband. Generally the financially weaker/lower earning party is the one to receive a larger share of assets.

To Melliegrantfirstlady

Husband may not have said he wants half of the house, but I bet his solicitor uses that as a starting point.

Thanks for your replies.

While I don’t think his starting point will be 50/50 I think he lawyers will yes.

I am under the impression we will be obliged to seek legal advice on any settlement agreement. Even if we agree our finances the court will require this.

I wasn’t the higher earner throughout our marriage. I worked half time until 2 years ago. I could go back to it but I want to be able to look after our son properly.

As for equal rights, the law protects people who have given up their careers to be home makers and/or raise children to allow the other party to concentrate on work. Whether male or female is irrelevant. However this is not our situation. It would not seem anymore equitable to award 50/50 if he were the woman.

We both supposedly work full time. He wouldn’t be great as main carer and wouldn’t want to be. Luckily my hours and holidays are flexible.

To OP

There is nothing to stop you and husband deciding between yourselves how to divide the assets. However, once you have reached an agreement I would recommend that it is formalized legally. That way neither partner can go back on the agreement.

Please get proper advice OP. And don't listen too much to Notbeingrobbed, who clearly is having her own issues and has a very unbalanced view of divorce, judging by her posts on many threads.

All the best.

Well said MrsBertBibby

I don’t see what is “equal” about one person leeching off another! I don’t see why property should be divided equally anyway. My name on my payslip - not anyone else’s. I do think marriage laws are unfair and I don’t see why a man should walk away from his kids and not pay a penny towards them, inflict psychological harm and then get money he didn’t earn.

And before you all come back saying that’s the law, didn’t you know that you idiot, I’ll add this. It’s a basic human need to want to form a relationship, have a family and seek to make the arrangement permanent and recognised by others. Our society reinforces that need by calling it marriage. People celebrate it and aspire to it. Our daily conversations are about who may or may not be getting married etc. If your parents have a good marriage you are likely to want the same thing.

Had I realised the true position in law I would never have married. I have worked hard to support my family, I have raised the kids, my Stbex worked too. But now, having harmed the kids he is apparently due more than his contribution. If I had known this would be the case before marriage I would not have gone through with the ceremony. Now I am trapped.

Maybe the law is to protect parents who do not work or give up work to raise kids? But what about those of us who work AND raise kids? It doesn’t protect us at all - it does us harm.

The equality I believe in is the right of a woman to earn your own money same as a man and keep it! The equality you speak of when you discuss marriage laws is the “equality” of communism. From each according to your ability to each according to your “need” to sit around on your backside leeching.

To Notbeingrobbed

Ex husbands have being saying same as you since the 1857 Matrimonial Cause Act, ie for over 160 years.

My ex wife received 2 of the 3 properties in the family even though she did not pay a penny towards any of them. Logic was that as a much higher earner than wife it would not take me that long to catch up. Sounded fair to me and it was my initial offer. Ex wanted all 3, but Judge said my offer was more than reasonable and I too needed a roof over my head. Key word is NEEDED.

Ex also wanted lifetime Spousal Maintenance. Judge knocked that on the head too. The logic was that wife was receiving 2 houses compared to my 1. Also wife was under 40 at time, in good health and had a job. So lifetime maintenance not considered as a need. Key word is NEED.

Yes, men tend to think the law is unfair - and it is!

But until the Matrimonial Causes Act a married woman could not own property at all, since then we can BUT is is joint within the marriage - that still seems unfair to me!

How is thinking from two centuries ago still affecting women today?

As for higher earning potential, what if you have taken a pay cut to look after the children harmed by your Stbex? What if you work in an industry with an uncertain future? What we earn today is not necessarily what we earn tomorrow.

I meant to say Married Women’s Property Act 1882.

To Notbeing robbed

Before the 1857 Act divorce was the privilege of the rich only as it required act of Parliament.

All things are considered Joint when married. A fact that has been known to all for a long time. If you claim to not have known that before you were married then you are truly unique in today's World.

Child Maintenance is reviewed annually to cover changes in paying parent's circumstances. However, I would say that the plus or minus 25% tolerance is too high and can penalize both partners.

Even Spousal Maintenance can be adjusted by the Courts if circumstances merit.

As to working in an industry with an uncertain future - who is not? Can anybody in today's World say they have a certain job for life?

Go to a family mediation service. They will help you document finances and agreement re your ds

Costs about £500 but that’s cheaper than arguing through solicitors or court. Resign yourself to 5050 and anything more is a bonus. And move on in the safe knowledge that you have the skills to do well for yourself in life without this feckless cocklodger

OP, I have a v similar story unfortunately. Divorce went through a year ago.

The guilt he had was what I went with tbh. As soon as he admitted the OW I was told I could have the house and everything. After the initial shock wore off, I saw a solicitor who told me that due to the little equity in the house, the courts would happily allowe to keep it due to dc.

2 years later and massive property boom. Lots more equity. But exh still reluctanly aggrees to original deal. We signed a consent order and sent to courts.

Courts rejected it!

My solicitor had to write to them to explain why we both agreed to this deal. My exh also wrote to the courts saying he understood what he was signing over and was doing it for his DC.

Courts agreed.

I know I have been v lucky. My exh still makes sarky remarks. He at the time of divorce had a shirty business and worked pt. Now he has been given a house (yes! His family have given him and his OW a house!) and his business has bloomed. He is far from doing badly.

I've managed to sell and buy a new home in a nicer area for the DC. We are happy.

If you think your ex will agree to giving you the house etc, I would speak to him about it and possibly see if you can see how likely he will stick to it. I was worried OW was going to talk him out of it (she had given up her marital home to be with him too 🤢).

Good luck. And I'm sorry you're having to go through this too