Court - what is your experience of court deciding the child arrangement order?

[whatthefuckjusthappened]

My ex is taking me to court for more time with the children.

Since he left (nearly two years ago) he has had them alternate weekends (Fri straight from school - Sun tea time), and a Tuesday after school until about 7.30pm. He has always wanted to have them 50/50 and sent me texts/emails asking/begging/bullying/threatening to get me to agree.

I have always said no - for a million different and varied reasons, which I won't go into here! I feel that the children's stability is better served by having one primary home, especially to go to and from school. Shared care suits some children, my godson included, but it does not suit my children.

Anyway, I've been quite disheartened from what I've heard regarding the courts' attitude to child arrangement orders. Although they are meant to be very much based on the child, and refer to the Child Welfare Checklist, I have also been told that they like to start from a place of 50/50 between the parents, and then move from there more heavily towards one parent if the evidence compels it.

It seems that as long as the other parent isn't violent, a court will allow them to share custody of the children, with no reference to how unsettling this may be to some children or what reasons the other parent has against it.

Are courts really more guided by parity between the parents rather than what is best for the child?

To be clear, I'm not inviting criticism of my not wanting the status quo to change. I would just like to know what are your experiences of how a court deals with child arrangement issues?

Thanks!

Actually little ones also need their daddy, full stop.

In my case the whole thing was a pointless, expensive, emotionally draining experience. I definitely wouldn’t recommend it until all other options had been exhausted. We’re no further forward than we were 17 months ago at the point of separating. Apart from the judge having now echoed exactly what I was saying from the very beginning.

I do feel the courts favour the status quo with young children which tends to lead to the mother getting the bulk of residency. I am sure there are instances where the mother has become a NRP due to being the wohp. However, I suspect when a mother is placed in that position the majority would, take a step back from their career in order to look after their dc part of the week.

Speaking about shared care, my barrister informed me that in the vast majority of cases she deals with, fathers usually have not been particularly involved in the day to day care of their dc until at the point of separation where they request 50/50. Now I’m not suggesting that all families operate like this, but in a society where women are paid less than men. Mothers are forced into low paid work after children in order to have flexibility in order for the father’s career to progress unimpeded. Men have and will continue to benefit from women bearing the brunt of raising children. You cannot then be disgruntled when the same system that often discriminates against us, on this occasion favours the primary carer upon separation.

WhoKnows11 - that's how I feel - that I didn't have children to not be with them and raise them. My ex CHOSE to leave so why should he be able to cause further disruption and upheaval by then demanding that they come with him for as much as he wants?! It drives me nuts because it is so entitled and so selfish.

Obviously, this is not a reason that would make any difference in court, because it should be about the children rather than my personal feelings on motherhood. So, similarly, I don't understand why the parent who has left their family should have their feelings on wanting to see their children more often taken into account.

I'm very scared that this is going to go his way in court, and that all the hard work that has gone into helping the children to heal and recover is going to be in vain as they will become ping pong balls between two homes with parents who aren't on good terms.

But I feel like I need to stand up for what I think is best for the children, even though it seems like it will do no good. It just all makes me so very, very sad.

Thousandpapercranes - thanks for that. My ex and I have never once spoken about child arrangements. The only thing he has done is sent texts to try to force me to agree. He has twice turned down mediation to talk about it. He has no interest in hearing the reasons why I don't agree with what he is proposing, or to reassure me about my concerns, or to explain to me why he thinks that his proposals are best for the children. No interest whatsoever in any sort of two-Way dialogue. I'm hoping it will stand against him in court that this has been his attitude.

My ex has always felt that he took a very hands-on role in the children's lives, but I would disagree with that. He cherry picked what he did. So he would drop them/pick up from clubs (usually if I was ferrying the other child) or do practical stuff. He was largely unaware and unappreciative of what I did because it was all the other stuff that he didn't know even needed doing! He had a bit of a god complex because he made a packed lunch once in a while. But he never did anything that benefitted the children just to make them happy - no trips to the park or taking them to parties, or playing with them.

My children are ten and seven, and I feel that at their age it is best to maintain the status quo. My daughter is showing increasing signs of anxiety, which my ex ignores. My son has very challenging and often violent behaviour. They are getting more and more settled as the time goes on. Plus there is also the future change of the woman who they blame for their father leaving moving in with him. They haven't met her yet, as my ex knows it won't go well, I assume. But she has moved halfway across the country to be with him so it is obviously on the cards.

Whatthefuckjudthappened - similar situation for me, my ex left before our 2nd child was born and now is taking me to court for full residency!!!! He’s an absolute joke of a human being let alone father!

I know he won’t get it but he just does anything to hurt me as he’s clearly not hurt me enough. All whilst saying he’s got his children’s bests interests at heart. What father leaves before his child is born and then tries to take them away 3 years later?!

Sadly my children are in the middle of it and it is sad how it affects them even though I’ve tried my hardest to stay friendly with their dad. Impossible though when I’m dealing with a bully!

I’ve done 90% of the parenting as my ex works away a lot. My youngest has never lived with him and knows him as daddy but he doesn’t know what a true daddy is. How can he when he left before he was born to start a new family with his home wrecker ow. However they like to parade my children around like they are a perfect blended family - it’s sickening to think our children are growing up thinking that this is morally correct!

'Whoknows11* it is about the children, not about you.

Jonbb - exactly it’s about the children! The damage that their father has caused them by walking out, he now wants to take them away from the one stable person who they’ve only ever known in their lives! I am only acting as my children’s advocate as any parent should!

You don't seem stable as you constantly are having a pop at the other parent in their life and presuming what is best for your children. It all sounds like a competition to you making sure you have greater responsibility in their lives

Wonytide - how does wanting what is best for the children make me unstable?

You want what is best for you having seen your comments on other threads as well as this. Don't confuse the two

My ex never once spoke to me about child arrangements either! he just said 1. he would kill himself if I duivorced him (he didn't) and then 2. he would move so far away he would never see them (I work full time so he knew that would make it harder for me) - in fact he moved 5 minutes away in the end and then he turnedup for the youngest for 2 hours on a Sunday afternoon and just kept coming for those 2 hours (no more) which was fine as at least we weren't arguing over where they were (I wsould have accepted 50/50 as we both work full time and he was a bit more involved with their care than I was but only just and I paid for our full time childcare but it never came to that - I would have liked even a night a year without them actually but you can't force these absent men to step up (and he doesn't pay either). Now they are teenagers it is not too relevant,

Once the youngest were big enough to get into his car without help he would just ring the bell and go back into the car and they would go out to him and from about 7 one could deal with emails on his PC (not a mobile - this is over 10 years ago now) so his father only ever contaced the child which is very rude when the mother is doing all the care arrangements, working full time and paying for everything.

My brother went through something similar. He does have 50/50 as agreed when his ex wife left him. After a few years of this she wanted to change the arrangements. The onus was on her to show why they needed to change and that it was in the children's best interests. They went to mediation but she wasn't prepared to compromise. It went to court but she wouldn't let cafcass speak to the children in order to get their perspective and court wouldn't accept her simply trying to tell them that the children weren't happy. The court ordered that the arrangements should stay the same.

This should give you some hope that after a couple of years of established contact, the onus should be on your ex to try and prove why this now needs to change. If he can't come up with proof of why it's in the best interests of the kids to change things then I can't see why the court would order a change in arrangements. Perhaps best to consult a solicitor to confirm this though.

I should also add that the kids have absolutely thrived with 50/50 in this particular case. I appreciate that's not always the case but it is here. Possibly because he's always been very involved and they live very close together which made school and stuff a lot easier to arrange and meant their social lives and friendships weren't effected.

I've been through this and the court favoured 50:50 over the status quo in my case.

Wobytide - thanks for telling me what I want when I haven’t even asked you your opinion, at the same time not being very nice in the process!

Wobytide absolutely right. My view too.

@Whoknows11 don't worry you don't want anyone else's opinion that much is clear. Just don't keep working on "what is best for the children" or "primary carer" as being get out clauses for people's behaviour not being right

Thanks again all for sharing your experiences. I totally appreciate that every case is different - how can it not be, we are talking about people here!!! I just hope that the courts take that view and really look at the evidence and judge on that.

For those of you who are struggling like I am - hugest of luck to you. X

My ex took me to court to get 50/50 but the judge ruled a 5 / 9 arrangement based on advice from CAHMS.

I was told that for a 50/50 to work, parents have to be good at communicating together and be willing to work collaboratively to ensure smooth transitions for the kids. As I could prove my ex was being very abusive and controlling in all of his communication, the judge ruled against him and ordered him to take the Freedom Programme for abusive men (which of course he is refusing to do!)

lorry that’s very useful to know. Because rights or wrongs of 50/50 aside I just don’t see how it could ever work when ex is just so utterly terrible at communicating or cooperating. And when he regularly withholds CM to punish me for not doing whatever he says. I’m keeping records. It makes me sad actually evenwith the 4 / 10 split we have the children regularly feel the effects of his behaviour.

Never - yes that's exactly what happened to me. CM withheld as punishment and all comms from him totally abusive and controlling. I pulled all the evidence into my witness statement (inc financial control) and this was put in front of the judge who ruled that his controlling nature wouldn't allow for the friendly collaboration required for a 50/50 arrangement.

Record everything, no matter how small. it was invaluable in my case.

6 months on - ex writes to me asking to change the arrangement because despite taking me to court and losing he feels that the 'court order doesn't have any real meaning'. You can bet that if the ruling had gone his way and I'd asked to change it at a later date I would have received a very rude 'NO'. Once the order is in place, stick to it - never deviate.