Financial settlement negotiations

[GuiltyMumOf2]

Hello all, I hope you don't mind me asking but I'd love some opinions...

My ex and I agreed we were over Feb 2014.

He earns (last I knew) more than £150k. I earn £17k.

Now, after 28 months, we still have no financial agreement. There have been two agreed to before (both his idea of what he would offerr, and me capitulating). However he has never paid me a penny of spousal support. He has paid the minimum of child support as worked out by the online calculator.

Trying to get a settlement (I want some closure!) I had my solicitor write a letter making a proposal for a settlement. I expected it to be a sort of opening bid.

Two months afterwards, I have received a letter from him offering: no money, ever, under any circumstances, except 50% pensions split.

Now, I do not have a bottomless purse, nor a thirst for vengeance. I totally understand that I will basically have to either accept, or stay married. (I'm being flippant. I'm not staying married!)

My questions are: am I right that at some point in the process, the court is going to write and tell me I'm a fool? Someone told me something like that... What's that like, what should I expect?

Secondly: I have kids, aged 17 & 21. One day I'm going to drop dead and they're going to find a big folder of papers basically detailing how selfish etc their dad is. How do I protect them from this? Can I destroy all the papers at some point? Or I'd that not fair, do they need to know? Mum guilt :(

I would just love some reactions if anyone wants to share!

It is very relevant if you are asking an opinion on £2000 per month spousal support if you don't also say what the entire marital assets were and what percentage and amount you got.

On the face of it, £2000 per month spousal support is huge really huge. Most families in the UK, 4 people, would live on that amount each month. That plus your own monthly income, that on the face of it would be very unreasonable, unless there is more justification as to why you should get such a huge amount to live on in addition to your own income.

I know that if I was asking that, it would be relevant. But I'm not. I'm not seeking any amount, and I'm not asking opinions on the settlement. I agree, if I were to receive £2k a month it would indeed be very generous.

I was asking firstly about the system and the possibility that the court will not like the agreement. If they don't do that, then that's fine. I was told to expect it, and I wondered quite what it meant in practice, that's all.

Secondly I was wondering peoples opinions on hiding the facts from my kids, in the future, for example by destroying the papers.

Spousal maintenance forms part of a settlement so to get any opinions, you'd have to see it as part of this process.

For the partner of a super super high earner who has been in a very long marriage, yes £2000 per month tax free income would actually not enough, but you'd be one of those rarities who'd make the DM. But for someone with the other side earning what you've stated, it would seem without any further information to be excessively unreasonable and a judge would be asking why you cannot live on 17k per annum that other single people live on, given you've got housing covered? Why the need for a further 24k? That is 41k for a single person per annum.

I don't really understand about your concern in hiding facts from adult children. Usually people who wish to destroy documents have things to hide and that does not sound good.

Why don't you just ask for something like 25k cash instead of asking for spousal maintenance? Put it in the bank, learn to live on 17k per annum, draw from it from time to time.

I don't understand your concern about private papers. Your kids are nearly adults. Ok they might read stuff that isn't good about their father but it will be up to them what they do with that info. If something was to happen to you I'm sore they will be more upset by that fact.

Yes a court may throw out a financial agreement. What will you do then?

I am living perfectly happily on myown money. I have not asked for more. As I said. The amount mentioned was his offer. The selfishness I see in him is in his offering various things then not ever paying anything.

I was thinking about my kids one day having their idea of him tarnished, and I was concerned to protect them from unnecessary hurt. I don't know what I will do about that.

If the court refuse the settlement... I really don't know what I will do. I'm very much hoping I won't have to figure that out!

Also, for the record, I do not 'have housing covered' separate from my income. I don't know where you got that from. The capital I have from the sale of the family home is my deposit for a mortgage.

I only wanted to know the procedure! Not the likelihood.

Surely fifty percent of your home given your ex earnings is enough to buy a house outright.

No. Not by a very long way. Just because he earns a lot doesn't mean there was a lot of equity. £46k

The procedures are available by using the internet and you can buy some great online books (that's what I did to hide the situation from the kids). I self represented. The judge and his barrister said it was increasingly common that mainly women have to do this.

I would not concentrate on procedures, more on looking at offers and negotiations from the point of view of the judge who has to divide your assets up. They look at how you can house yourself and how you can feed yourself and as you're not going to have dependent children (this is awful UK courts, other EU countries taken 24 years old as the end of child dependency for adult children still in education) much longer. The judge will not care about the salary discrepancy, if you've got housing and living expenses covered, but as you haven't stated what the full assets are, then no-one can try and guess how reasonable your ideas of settlement are.

It's pretty much going to be a waste of time if you are not thinking of likelihood and concentrating on procedure. Court is evil if self representing. You can keep to all deadlines and when you have the other side with legal reps, they know they can get away with disregarding a court imposed timetable with the sole intention of running you down emotionally knowing you are driven by your own emotions and no-one is paying you (£250 an hour). It really isn't worth it unless you have a decent chance of getting what you desire.

Sorry , with only 46k then yes he should be paying a decent amount of spousal maintenance what on earth has he been spending his money on?

'It really isn't worth it unless you have a decent chance of getting what you desire'

No, which is why I wasn't contemplating it. What I desire is it all to be over, nothing more.

If the marriage/relationship was long, suggested by the children's ages, if the income was 150k net per year over a long period, then a judge would be very interested in where all that money has gone. The responsibility would fall on you both so if you have spent and there is nothing hidden and only 46k left, then you can argue that some further money should come to you. You will know yourself if there is likely to be money hidden or not. If you suspect there are further assets, then they should be shared.
But without the full picture, no-one can confidently speculate as to entitlement and level.

I personally would not be keen on spousal maintenance for a limited period, say 50 k spread over 1 or 2 years, simply because if the trust is gone, you'll spend every month wondering if it will be paid. I'd be keener for a lump sum in lieu of spousal maintenance. I don't think it would take much convincing to a judge, if the assets are really only 46k, that the inequality of salaries should mean a lump sum should go to you and this is where you would need to really look at it through the eyes of a judge and not yourself, if you don't have the financial means to pay a lawyer (count on 20k to take this to court if you had a lawyer). Would a judge see 50k as a reasonable lump sum, given the other side's income of 150k net? That is asking for only 4 months net salary. And that 50k would be the equivalent of 3 years of your salary.

Think further on what you think you could achieve in front of a judge. The judge in my case said he set 5 years as a times span generally on how far in advance he looked to both sides being able to house and feed themselves. He spent an entire day quizzing us both on the ability to do this and concluded that, if he awarded me enough money to be able to save the family home and asked me to pay over enough money that the other side could put down a deposit on another home, he had satisfied the law of division of assets. The judge in your case, would they be satisfied your husband could house himself if he gave you 50k lump sum which would enable you to see you through the next few years?

I am in a similar situation and found this tool online that could solve my problem

thistoo.co/

Has anyone used it before?

Lifeisunjust - did you go to a final hearing? was that when the judge quizzed you both? did you feel you got a fair hearing?