Fair?

[Followmedown]

Soon to be ex-wife is asking for £550 per month child support (£150 on top of what I've been paying for the 2.5 years) and refusing to sign a consent order to finalise our divorce unless I pay it. She says I should pay our three children's expenses (childcare etc) on the days I look after them on top of the £400 I pay her every month. I earn just over £2100 (take home) per month and I look after the children three out of four nights per week. I live with my partner.

I feel like I'm being held to ransom as I want a divorce some time this century (we have been separated since 2012) - I have had to push it constantly to get anything to happen as she refuses to pursue it even though she petitioned in the first place.

Is she being fair? If I go to court what are the possible outcomes? Voices of experience greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Are you sure she can refuse the divorce like this anyway?

Wasn't there another thread recently where someone was refusing to sign the divorce stuff, and when someone googled, the .gov site said that if they didn't sign within 21 days then they were deemed to have agreed and could go to court to finalize the divorce anyway.

Or is this a different thing? I confess I know nothing about any of this - I'm not even married.

Asking about what she spends the maintenance on is not acceptable. You may not mean it to be, but it is very controlling behaviour. It is her income for her to budget with as she sees fit.

Do you have a decree nisi? If so you can apply for decree absolute 3 months after her 6 weeks has expired (ie 4.5 months after dn.

I know they're not called DN and DA these days but the principle is the same.

If you're a teacher I would think your employer will have a scheme for you to buy childcare vouchers. This could save you quite a bit of money.

I had to pay £30k child care a year and £50k school fees and I'm female so count yourself lucky!

OP, I was going to reply to you last night, but got distracted.

I am a fellow teacher so know from your take home salary that you are on roughly £35k? I apologise if I am wrong.

Does the csa calculator thingy expect you to use take home salary? I just think that for 3 kids, the £400 per month you are paying at the moment is measly!

Both my stbxh are teachers on a similar wage. When my xh calculated this on his salary (actually less than you and for only 2 dc) it came back as £450/mth. He does only have my dc 4 days per foutnight (1 night midweek and eow).

He actually pays me more than this to help me cover cc as our youngest is in nursery still. His paymemts only cover cc actually. I think your stbxw may have a pont. And if she had posted on here and listed your salary and her side of the story she may have had different responses to you.

I agree with you over the divorce. In fact I filed mine today on our 8th wedding anniversay. I can't wait to see the back of the adulterous swine. But that's me.

But I would imagine you were bringing home a take home pay of a lot more than £2,100 a month. If somebody keeps asking for more and more money then I think the ex has got a right to ask why they need more. If it was me and somebody was being difficult I'd pay the statutory minimum. And buy the DC;s extra things when they were with me. I wouldn't hand it over to a nasty ex.

Oh the old buy DCs things .... Usually duplicates of what they already have or shite they don't need, nobody wins except maybe the retailers, great result alround

Todayiamfat- the reason the OPs figure is less is because he has his children for almost half of the week.

Thanks for all the comments everybody, very helpful.

At the end of the day I just want to be divorced so I can get on with my life. Please note that we went through mediation in 2012/13 and agreed all this then and since then her costs have gone down (less childcare, I pay lunches for the eldest). She petitioned for divorce but for a long time she has refused to process the divorce (e.g. create the consent order) so my solicitor ended up doing the order which she is now disagreeing with.

Lonecat I don't see that it's controlling to ask her what the costs for the children are if she's asking me to agree to pay more than the going rate. She'd have to submit financial info anyway, I think.

RedDaisyRed - I don't think you live on the same planet as me - your school fees plus childcare are more than double my income.

Bellemere-i get that. But I think it's misleading of the OP to state his take home salary when even the csa calculator (what IS it called now?) states weekly income before tax and NI.

And the OP says on average 3 nights a week. Would the dm say the same? Is it a mixture of 2-3 nights instead? This makes a huge difference when calculating the absolute minimum that is expected.

I got £68 per week from the calculator, based on three kids, three nights per week residence, and grossing up your income by 20%.

As a teacher myself, I know OPs salary is roughly £3k/mth before tax.

(3000 x12)/52

Is roughly 700 per week.

I get it to be £95 per week which x52 /12 = £411 per month.

Maybe she is backdating the £11 extra she is owed .

To be honset. Her request of him paying the expenses (so cc etc) on days he has the kids will easily bump this up to £500/mth.

Sorry OP.

The CSA calculator is based on gross income after pension contribution. Not sure how much this will be but I'd guess somewhere around 6% after tax relief on the contribution is taken into account.

So based on gross income of £3K per month (£36K pa) the gross per week after pension is about £650.

For 3 children 2-3 days pw this is £88 pw or £381 pcm
For 3 days pw this is £71 pw or £307 pcm

So £400 sounds about right if it's 2-3 nights or quite generous if it's actually 3 nights a week you have the DC.

Clubs etc. would strictly be expected to come out of this, although in your shoes I wouldn't see your DCs miss out.

Childcare (and IMO dinner money) for your days is your responsibility - but as I said earlier you could pay for this yourself with vouchers rather than hand over the cash which will save you money. This may not be acceptable to your ex though if she's already paying for the whole lot wih vouchers.

I wouldn't be paying for her holidays though!

Thanks for all the comments - very helpful.

My final word on all this:

I still feel hard done by.

I look after my children 50 per cent of the time, virtually. I physically look after them more during school holidays because I do all the day time care when they're not away with her. My income is my wages.

She lives in the house (luxury compared to mine), extended a few years ago at a cost of £60,000+ of my money so the kids can all have their own bedrooms. She has her income. She gets tax credits and some benefits. She gets child maintenance.

She's asking for more money before she allows me a divorce.

Is that really fair?

Sorry got a bit grumpy there. Thanks again to everyone who took the time to respond and help out!

No it isn't fair. But life isn't fair.

You need legal advice about how best to proceed with the consent order problem, but CM is not part of the settlement. So whatever you agree now can be revised after a year if circumstances change, and either one of you could go to the CMS for their decision at any time.

OP, i do agree that your wife is being unfair not to proceed with the divorce. Is it all financial reasons for her? Or is any of it not really wanting to let go of the marriage?

But I still feel you are not being entirely honest with your income. Of course your income is your wages? What an odd thing to say? Or do you mean you have no other income?
If your wife is getting tax credits and benefits etc then that is because her income isn't as high as yours. Unfortunately when you divorce everyone loses out financially.

I do think it's very sad that it is coming down to arguing over £100 extra a month for 3 kids! At the moment you are paying the minimum (and that includes that you should be paying ALL expenses on your days). Do you think your ex is doing that? Spending the absolute minimum? Your kids will be used to a certain life style. Should they have to change this?

I know you think i am being unfair and harsh. But personally I don't think the dc should be getting the minimum off you. Doesn't mean I think you should be paying for the holidays! And if you ARE looking after them all holiday-I suppose you in theory should pay less those months?

Go and see a solicitor. Both stbxh and I have seen one separately. It does help to know where you stand financially. I know i am lucky for example that my ex is paying more than the csa dictate otherwise I would not be able to work! It only covers childcare.

Are you paying towards the mortgage still? Is that separate? Or is your ex taking that on? Not that I believe you should.

today Yes, I mean I have no other income other than my salary from my job. Her salary is a bit more than mine I think, actually. At the moment I am paying more than the minimum. As I said earlier on the thread I offered several months ago to pay a bit more if she could show me what the costs are and we could work it out fairly. She has never told me the costs. She just wants me to pay £150 per month more so she'll sign the papers with no indication of how that's worked out. This effectively works out as me paying £600 per month because I pay for my son's lunches (on her days too) and that works out as £50 per month on average through the year.

I have tried to reply 3 times now! Argh!

Your suggestion to add up expenses and split them is a good one. However, beware as you may very well end up paying more. My eldest dc is the only one at sch. But I pay approx £200 per month for morning and after sch club. And that is only for 3 days! Multiply that by 3 kids. And make it full time....then add on lunches (you reckon £50 per dc!) plus clubs...you may very well be worse off. It may also be the reason why she is asking for more money.

But she should be open with this. And i also agree she is wrong to withhold the divorce signing.

If you have been separated as long as you say, I didn't think you needed her signature? Or is that after 5 years?

Thanks today. At least if I knew what she was paying for everything I could make an offer... I'm not sure of time limits (3 years maybe?). The main issue on the order is the house which is all agreed on. But again, I had to get the consent order drawn up myself after waiting for months for her to (not) do it. Anyway, thanks again.

Hi Followmedown.

I earn a little bit (not much) more than you, I have 50/50 custody so 5 days one week and two days the next week which averages 3.5 days and my CMS calculation come out at £26 a week. I actually pay £200 a month and cough up half for school trips etc if I’m pre-warned.

I suspect that she looks on you as a bit of cash cow. Last year I got paid out for the equity in the house by my ex and she did something very similar, she calculated how much had been paid for the kids presents over Christmas and demanded an extra payment or she wouldn’t sign the papers. I think the amount of money she had to pay out was preying on her mind and she just wanted to recoup a bit.

Stick to your guns and when it’s all done and dusted then if she’s anything like my ex, she’ll settle into a routine.

I don't understand why you are paying anything to be honest. If you have the children 50% of the time then you pay expenses to house feed and clothe them - including childcare on your days. Then surely she is responsible for the same on her 50% of the time.

It's vyer unfair. It's very unfair I pay for everything.

There is a huge issue over childcare c osts though. More and more wives work full time and childcare in London is about £10k a year per child so often for two the couple before divorce are paying about £20k a year just for that andj ust so they can work yet I don't think the CMS calculations seem to allow for that.

I suppose once we move to 50./50 for most people then the person with the children will pay their childcare on their 50% of the days and child benefit for those lucky enough to get it - I don't - could be split 50/50 too. Think about poor me when the children were younger - teacher ex who did not have any of the chidlren for even one night over 8 weeks (yes private school) whilst I worked full time all summer except one week to keep them and pay his divorce settlement so had to pay for 7 weeks of child care. Unfair world is divorce law. there is no law that allows me to force my children's father even to have them one night a year!