Arguing in front of children

[vanillavelvet]

This morning H and I had another row. Things haven't been great for years and I've recently instigated couples counselling, our first session is on Tuesday.

Since I instigated this things have gone from bad to worse, with H now sleeping in the spare room and not communicating at all (which actually is one of the major issues in our relationship. He believes he's keeping us together by never verbalising when things are bothering him whereas I wish I knew what was bothering him so we could try and fix it).

This morning I asked him why he's been choosing to sleep in the spare room for the last few nights and it led to an almighty row - again - in front of our 3 and 6-year-olds. Unfortunately I mentioned separation, which I am disappointed in myself for, and our 6-year-old started asking a lot of questions.

I explained that we love her very much, that H and I are having some disagreements that are nothing to do with her and her sister and that we were going to get someone to help us talk through our disagreements to see if we can fix things. My H is fuming that I've said this.

He's gone off to work in a rage and I am very disappointed in myself for involving the children - although they have been aware of our arguments already.

I don't really know why I'm posting. I don't know what to do for the best. We have some very deep rooted issues that have been ongoing for years and I have been struggling for the last year or so and just recently decided that I couldn't ignore the issues any longer.

How do you know if you're doing the right thing? (Sorry that's so long...)

Why did you ask him about the spare room in front of your kids? At best this was just totally inappropriate for them to hear, at worst of course a row was going to start.

I'm not sure what you're asking really. But you need to pull yourself together and stop talking about this stuff in front of, and to, your children.

Whatever you and your H are going through, your DCs should be coming first. You need to agree to be respectful and polite to each other in front of them. Anything else is just selfish. I'm sorry, I know that might sound harsh. But it's true.

Hope Tuesday goes well for you.

Yes, I know you're right. The reason I asked this morning was because he was going to work and I wasn't sure when I'd get the chance to speak to him again. He's out a lot. We don't see much of each other.

But I realise you're right. I do need to pull myself together. I'm finding it really difficult. I know I'm making mistake after mistake. I'm worried about the arguments but I'm also worried about whether it would be better for the children for us to stay together regardless. I don't really know why I posted either. But thanks for your response.

Oh, and just to clarify, I didn't ask the question in front of the children. They weren't in the same room. It did escalate into a row though and that's when they became aware. So, not much better I suppose.

I know it's difficult. I'm not immune to needing to give myself the same advice!!

My own view is that it is better for the children to muddle through. That is based on both personal experience and research I've read. But, I know I'm completely in the minority there. And I'm don't know that I'm right. That's just my 'right'.

I made my bed a long time ago so I'm laying in it. And really, I'm a pragmatist. I know the alternative isn't any better. Split custody, struggling for money, arguments about maintenance, Christmases and birthdays spoilt forever then the inevitable step-parents and step/half siblings. Is that really what you want for your children?

This all depends how bad it is though I suppose.

Oh crikey, I'm about to give a very different response to that! I'm 2 years down the line with my divorce from a very very difficult character. It's been tough, and yes there have been arguments in front of the children (thankfully none any longer).

You're only human, and the fact you posted on here saying what you said shows that you know that. Nobody gets it right the whole time. I lived under the same roof as my STBXH after we separated for 5 months and it was sheer hell - emotions are running very high indeed.

It sounds dreadfully frustrating, with him essentially ignoring you - and the problems. I would congratulate you for initiating counselling, but unfortunately as you probably well know, it takes two to tango on that front. You cannot fix your marriage alone. Be prepared to undertake the counselling alone if he won't engage properly with the process.

Regarding the children, mine were 3 (twins) when we separated; they are now 5. It has not been easy but my "right" is that I am fiercely proud that I'm not settling for a shit marriage and a life of misery. I want to teach them to aim high in relationships and get very emotional thinking about what a half-life we had before separation.

You don't have to live in this way. We all deserve to be in relationships that are at least semi-functional, and as a minimum mutually respectful.

Teapot that's a very valid point. Teaching our children how to love and be loved, in a healthy and mutually respectful relationship is important.

OP all any of us can do (with all aspects of our lives) is what we think is best.

Christmases and birthdays spoilt forever... is this really what you want for your children?

Sorry Missus but I find this quite irritating to read. Christmases and birthdays are NOT spoilt forever just because you choose to leave your partner (or have your partner leave you).

I grew up with miserably-married parents, and "fondly" remember them arguing and me and my brother desperately trying to find a place in the house where we could avoid hearing their angry words. It was awful.

Some of us choose to leave our marriages precisely because we weigh all these factors up and decide that even with our children spending some of their time away from us (you never know, you may grow to see this for the positive that it can be - prior to separation I never got a break, ever), and with huge issues to sort out during the divorce, etc - IT'S STILL WORTH IT. Because the misery with a controlling, nasty, passive aggressive husband comes to an end when you decide to end the marriage. It all gets better and you realise that you and your children live in a happy house, with nobody having to tread on eggshells. It's luxurious.

Thanks Teapot, it sounds like you made the right decision for you. My problem is that I don't know what's right for me. I swing between fantasising about a wee two-bedroomed flat for me and my girls, where I can stick the pictures they've drawn all over the kitchen walls, and then worrying that I could ruin their lives.

H and I have had another disagreement just now (children safely tucked up in bed) where I feel we've not concluded anything and his closing statement was to call me a 'selfish shit' which I don't really think is very constructive. I'm really hoping that counselling will help us communicate more constructively. My worst case scenario would be to continue as we are now. I am holding on to some hope that counselling can help to fix us though. Or, at least, help me decide what my 'right' is.

I don't think anyone "knows" that it's definitely right or wrong when you're in the thick of it. In my case he was the one to finally pull the plug, but as soon as he said it I knew it definitely had to happen and called a lawyer the next day. We had been unhappy for a long time but for some reason, this time I knew we'd really hit 'rock bottom'.

When you're considering separation, I realised that the problem is that you're looking at two options: a) separating - this involves definite pain for the children and it's completely unknown until you go through it what that path will look like.... or b) staying together - this involves a pain for everyone that you are already aware of, you know what this path looks like.

So - it's very very hard to be sure when choosing the unknown path, that this is the better path. I think it must be different when something cataclysmic has happened such as an ultimate betrayal or violence, because then despite the pain you kind of know you HAVE to take the unknown path.

To say that calling you a "selfish shit" is not constructive is, as I'm you realise, a massive understatement. I wish you every success in counselling - and when I say that, I mean in terms of helping you decide what the right thing is. Is your H generally this disrespectful towards you? Would you say he is abusive? Because in that case I would say be wary of attending counselling together.

Another thing you could consider, although I'm sure it might feel too drastic, is an initial appointment with a divorce lawyer. I think it is REALLY helpful to at least know what divorce would look like, from a financial and contact point of view, should that be the path you choose to take. Knowledge is power.

Christmases and birthdays spoilt forever... is this really what you want for your children?

Sorry missus I disagree. Since we split (Jan 2015) 2 of our DC have had birthdays and they have loved every second. The day was not spoilt at all mostly due to me and their father acting like grown ups.

We are happier apart than as a couple and the children see this. Yes it was hard and sad at first but it hasn't destroyed their life.

OP sadly we ended up telling our DC about our separation because they overheard a row. It wasn't great but we realised we had to then be honest with them ( in an age appropriate way). It isn't easy and you will not always do it the right way so please don't beat yourself up over it.

I hope things work out for you and you do what is best for everyone which includes yourself.

Thanks Flossy and Teapot, it's helpful to know that sometimes it IS the right decision to split.

Teapot, to answer your question, no, my H isn't generally that disrespectful, I believe it does come from being unable to argue constructively and 'winding each other up'. I don't resort to name calling but do lose my cool at times, so I'm not perfect either.

I work part-time and, funnily enough, my H sometimes asks me for work-related advice and takes what I say on-board. But he doesn't seem to respect the work I do keeping the house and looking after the children.

I'm hoping we can get to the bottom of it all. The first counselling session is tomorrow evening. I have no idea what to expect but I really hope it is useful.

I actually think explaining to the kids is as good thing. I grew up in a household where the rows were immense and always swept under the carpet and it has led to all sorts of issues for me.

as for your h, he is being a twat and actually I am not sure from your posts that getting counselling is going to help - if he won't talk about it woth someone he is supposed to love it's unlikely that he will do so in front of a stranger. his behaviour is bordering on abusive so I would seriously consider whether you actually want to remain in this relationship.

You are human, OP and inevitably not being able to talk things through will lead to outbursts - and sometimes these might be in front of the children, however hard you try. And it isn't as if they haven't noticed things are hard between you. At least this has given them a chance to comment, and ask questions.

I personally am going for the better future life option - also currently with a non communicative h, who interestingly comes from a background with parents who clearly should have left each other decades ago. My H's favourite option is to stay together for our children but having seen what an effect his parents' marriage has had on him…well, no that isn't an option for me. As has been said above, I want our children to have higher expectations.

So, don't give yourself a hard time about arguing in front of the children, you are aware you both need to avoid doing it again. But it is a symptom of having to remain 'buttoned up' and unfulfilled, I think. And that's what you have to change. Good luck with the counselling.