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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

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Original poster

Pension after divorce?

56 replies

Buildasnowman · 02/11/2014 16:21

Name changed just in case....
Together 7 years, separated 1yr then divorced 1.5yrs. 2 children together, XH also has older child.
He is being horrible about child payment and access etc. just wondered - am I still entitled to go for part of his pension? With his company and his own contributions it is about £700 per month. I didn't ask for spousal maintenance (or whatever it is called now) just child maintenance which he doesnt pay the minimum
Thanks

OP posts:

Greengrow · 04/11/2014 09:30

Yes, if lots of us take our pension as a lump sum the state confiscates 45% or 40% of 75% of it.

I certainly think you should look into getting a pension sharing order which as said above earn marks part of the fund for you or you can invest it in a separate pension yourself. You can do that as long as you did not have a final consent order sealed by the court which settled all the finances when you divorced which is why I keep banging on about checking there was nothing like that. Or a final financial order stamped by the court decided by the judge at the time. Did you have a financial hearing on the divorce in court? It would be worth going through all the divorce papers to check and if you used a solicitor at the time checking with them.

bobs123 · 04/11/2014 09:59

No final consent order atm as we're just about to start the mediation stage.

So if by any chance he had already taken out 25% would that also be taxed at his highest rate? And can he do that if he is still working? He has already provided a CETV. Would it show up somewhere if he has already taken out 25%?

whattodoforthebest2 · 04/11/2014 10:11

The 25% lump sum isn't taxable. I'm not sure if you can ask for a CETV to be backdated, so you can see whether the sum has reduced significantly. Of course if he has taken some out since you split, you want that to be out of his share and not out of the whole pot.

bobs123 · 04/11/2014 10:40

It was just a thought that he could have tucked 25% of it away somewhere and then had the CETV done. I guess it's a question to ask at mediation along with details of the other smaller pension he also has from pre marriage. His solicitor has argued that it not matrimonial and doesn't have to be included but any pre marriage assets I have are matrimonial (always kept in my name). Any experience of this?

Greengrow · 04/11/2014 10:45

You cannot currently just take 25% out and leave 75% in and then the 25% is tax free. You either take it all out subject to 55% tax on it all or you take 25% as a tax free lump sum and buy an annuity which is taxed as your highest rate 40%, 45% on the income. You can also currently do "drawn down" - take parts but again most is taxed.

When the last changes you will be able to take 100% at age 55 with 25% tax free and the 75% rest taxed often at 40% or 45% but those changes are not yet in force I think.

IN other words when I turn 55 I will be able to take my whole pension scheme sum out but 75% of it will be taxed at 45% - a huge penalty. If instead I take 25% as a lump sum and buy an annuity with the other 75% that will be taxed at 40% or 45% so almost halve the sums it will pay out in tax. You cannot take the 25% lump sum and leave the 75% in the pension. You will be able to take say half the lump sum but again it is 25% of the half (not the whole) which is tax free. So if the pension fund has £400k in it if you take a pension at 55 you can currently take £100k tax free and buy an annuity with £300k which is likely yield about £12,000 a year before tax which if you are working could still be tax at 40% so about £7200 a year after tax from the £300k lump sum.

You can take the pension at 55 or earlier and carry on working.

bobs123 · 04/11/2014 10:51

Thanks that clarifies things - so he won't have taken any out.

whattodoforthebest2 · 04/11/2014 11:59

You cannot take the 25% lump sum and leave the 75% in the pension.

Sorry, I stand corrected.

The changes come into force in March/April 2015.

Original poster

Buildasnowman · 04/11/2014 12:16

What to do - am I best waiting until next year then? He does pay the higher tax rate and has been paying into the pension for at least 12 years - I believe it is a final salary pension (I know it will be 45k+ as I saw that a few years ago on a statement)
So could I transfer it into a SIPP then cash it in next year?
Thanks for the info!

OP posts:

whattodoforthebest2 · 04/11/2014 12:27

Yes, you could transfer your share into a SIPP and then take some out in cash, but the rest needs to be allocated and will be subject to tax as Greengrow says. When is the CETV dated?

Original poster

Buildasnowman · 04/11/2014 12:39

I haven't done anything as yet so no CETV. I've just emailed a solicitor between posts to make an appointment but that's it!

OP posts:

Greengrow · 04/11/2014 14:32

(what, the new changes will allow people to take it out in bits but the tax free element will be 25% of each withdrawal. So if you take out a sixth of the fund 25% of that sixth will be tax free and the rest taxed at whatever that mount takes you up to - so if you have no earnings or other income and are 55+ you could take out a lump sum of £12k for example and £10k would be within your tax free band and use that up and the £2k would be tax free too as it is less than 25% of £12k and the same each year but remember once you have the state pension that is taxable if you have income over the tax free annual allowance).

Original poster

Buildasnowman · 04/11/2014 17:36

I've made an appointment and I'm seeing a solicitor next week. Personally, I'm only 32 so would prefer to have something sooner rather than in 23 years time, even if I am taxed on it

OP posts:

Dotheayotollah · 09/11/2014 19:40

So hang on your ex has worked hard all his life for his pension and you being his bitter ex having not paid a penny In to his pension decide that you're entitled to half of it?
I find that pathetic and grabby tbh. Why don't you just work hard and fund your own pension or is that too much hard work for you?

Dotheayotollah · 09/11/2014 19:41

No wonder so many people decide not to get married when they have women like you to deal with.

ILoveOnionRings · 09/11/2014 20:34

The Op did say she was looking at 7 years of the pension - the 7 years they were married which seems very reasonable to me

Original poster

Buildasnowman · 09/11/2014 21:25

Wow! So you judge me after I ask about 7 years of his pension - we agreed that I would be a stay at home parent, half the pension would have been mine had we have stayed together (I haven't even said the reason we split but I'm sure that wouldn't matter). I am only asking about his pension now as he hasn't been paying enough maintenance (I didn't even ask for spousal maintenance) for the children, otherwise I wouldn't have even looked at his pension. How dare you be so rude without knowing the situation?! I got him the bloody job, I wrote his cv, I looked after his other children (whilst looking after our 2 under 1's) so he could work. I walked away without a single penny to my name - I didn't go after any savings, pensions, any of our art that we bought together yet you think I'm money grabbing?!

OP posts:

whattodoforthebest2 · 09/11/2014 23:41

Someone's got a chip on their shoulder.

thankyouandgoodbye · 10/11/2014 06:55

Dotheay I think the OP is being reasonable (apart from the bit about writing his CV and sending it off - I don't think that qualifies as you getting him a job as you have to be able to do actually do the job in the first place).

I know someone who gets eye watering amounts of 'spousal maintenance', huge child support payments, private school fees paid and STILL asks for 'inflation' every year!!!! She pays for nothing towards her children even though she has a well paid job! Did I also mention she has all the equity in the family house too? Believe me the list is even longer than that.

*Whattodo whilst she may have a chip, no one seems to think twice of some hard working husbands in these situations. You obviously do not have a husband who pays over and above to an ex.

OP I think you are asking a reasonable question I also think you should have got some child maintenance too.

Original poster

Buildasnowman · 10/11/2014 10:03

Thanks thankyou - I had to give up my job for him to get this job - I know I obviously didn't get the job for him! I also used to contribute towards maintenance for his other children so that they were paid above and beyond so I have been on both sides and seen the first wife get the house (no mortgage) in addition to our maintenance payments. I'm not going after everything - just the amount when we were together and I'm only looking for it now as he wont be reasonable about maintenance for the children and threatens custody battles when I mention it.

OP posts:

thankyouandgoodbye · 10/11/2014 10:12

Please don't let his threats deter you. Yu really are only asking what is fair - he will probably not have a leg to stand on regarding custody.

Also can I add - I think it's amazing that you helped support your step children. That was a lovely lovely thing to do.

whattodoforthebest2 · 10/11/2014 10:18

We hear so many instances of men fucking off with another woman and leaving the ex to clear up the mess - then they want to start again on a new page and forget they've left a family behind. They deserve what they get and, if they're struggling down the line, think about the lives they've shattered. Of course, they won't do that, they'll stick their head in the sand and pretend they were hard done by. They should be brought to account and pay a fair share of their income for as long as necessary. Is anyone feeling sorry for them? Or the OW? I don't think so. If they're both lying, cheating bastards, they deserve what they get.

thankyouandgoodbye · 10/11/2014 10:31

Wow whattodo imagine being a child in all that! Watching your father fuck off with someone else and then watching your mother bleed your father dry to 'punish' him.

I think both of these things would equally affect a child's upbringing. If you think the mother comes off the hero then I would have to say you are wrong. As I child of divorce I can tell you now I resented my mother as much as my father. Deeply.

Like I said OP it sounds like you are going for what's right.

whattodoforthebest2 · 10/11/2014 10:45

I doubt whether the courts would allow one party to 'bleed the other dry' - thank you. That's why we have a judicial system - to work towards a fair outcome. Perhaps you don't know all the details in your friend's case. Otherwise, if there's a significant change in circumstances, you can apply for a variation.

Original poster

Buildasnowman · 10/11/2014 11:42

Thanks thank you I just hope that his girlf treats my children well too. the children always come first in these situations and my (ex) step children included - goodness knows how he will prioritise though with two lots of children from different mothers and his girlfriends too. He always though of himself before the children so I can only hope he starts to grow up and realises before the my children take notice (his eldest already have)

OP posts:

whattodoforthebest2 · 10/11/2014 11:47

I think DC realise very early on who puts their priorities first. Being honest with them is the most important thing, then they can judge for themselves. Sadly, I hear of too many fathers who never grow up in this regard and only think of their own needs. It reflects on them as role models generally too.

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