Leaving the country with DC's

[WallyBantersJunkBox]

Hi,

Can I get some feedback from knowledgable posters please?

If you are a married couple, but separated and living in the same abode, do you think it's correct that one parent can just take the DCs to another country for a day without asking permission, or even giving any notice to the other parent while they are at work?

Aside from a lack of basic manners and respect of course!

Overseas, so living on the border with 3 countries.

Separated by a few weeks, SAHP with no job or money to move out, just a small pension of their own, at home caring for DC. Nowhere else to go as yet, has their own bedroom and bathroom. Other parent working full time to pay for everything.

Separation - agreed in principle that it is the end of the marriage but the details need working out. SAHP won't commit to any conversation on agreements etc or sign an official separation agreement.

DC tells working parent that he is being taken on a trip to another country, on the morning of the trip. It's the school holidays.

Parent who has to go to work simply says to SAHP (verbatim) "it would be polite and also important following the separation to tell me if you plan to take DC out of the country, out of general respect and safety. Things are different now, and I need to know if you plan to be out of the country when you are spending time with DC"

Other parent blows up, storms off and makes huge deal of cancelling trip because they are not allowed to take their "own child" anywhere without the "mind controlling power play of the other parent." Tells DC that the trip is cancelled because of the other parent playing mind games. Makes DC cry and also working parent.

Even when they were togehter SAHP would rarely mention these sorts of trips, working parent would find out from DC. One of the big reasons for the separation.

Is your child still missing ? I'm struggling to see what the issue is tbh. When she /he finally manages to leave you properly and you don't control her/him financially, there will be an awful.lot of parenting decisions that she/he makes which won't meet your approval. You need to chose which battles are worth fighting.

It's about trying to set some ground rules for communication on dc going forward tbh.

I wouldn't even think of jumping on a plane without telling stbxh that DC and I were leaving the country.

He could be six countries away in 10 hours and I would have been absolutely clueless. I would have assumed that my dc was playing in their bedroom all day. If something happened I would be completely unawares (I have to travel for work so may be far away from home).

Does it seem so unreasonable for someones partner to tell the mother of their child that they are planning to take them out of the country? Don't even need passports so they can just drive off.

I don't want to know the ins and outs of what they do on their days together, just which country DC is in!

They are not missing, I of course told them to uncancel and after being shouted at they left.

We are writing up a separation letter, I just wondered if it was unreasonable to put that in, that we should each notify each other if we intend to take DS out of the country.

I don't control anyone financially, I pay for the house, car, bills, schooling, phones and stbxh has a £700 a month salary that he spends on himself. He doesn't contribute to anything.

He asked for a 6 month break from work 2.5 years ago, he has had 1 interview in this time. He is not a SAHP by mutual decision IYSWIM, I just cancelled after school club as there was no point paying for it when there was one person at home.

yanbu to want to know where your child is going. i agree you don't need to know the ins and outs of what they are doing but you have a right to know that they will be out. especially is you get home they aren't there.

just the same as if dc went out with friends, you'd want to know where abouts and who with, even if you didnt wanna know the ins and outs to what they got up to.

all i asked of xp was to tell me if he wasnt gonna take dd somewhere that wasn't usual to just going to his mothers. and he does.

i understand where you're coming from and in an emergency you'd be confused to get a phone call from a local a and e telling you that dc was there. and you really weren't expecting them to.

i appreciate peoples comments about when they are older they won't be telling you everything. thats understandable, i don't tell my parents everything. but while the dc are in your house they follow the rules of 'let me know where you are so i know you're safe'

you're not in the UK, then?

It's a difficult one. Technically, in the UK, a parent without a residence order can't leave the country with the children without the other parent's permission. If there is a Residence Order, the parent with the Order can leave for up to 28 days without permission.

In practise, I am pretty sure that parents come and go all the time with their children without notifying the other parent. There is a risk of court action and accusations for kidnap but if taken to court, judges will grant that a child is allowed a holiday with both parents abroad unless there is a history of retaining a child and/or the parent is a 'flight risk' (family abroad, from abroad, previously made lots of threats to leave the country). If you live somewhere where you're on the boarder and regular travel across boarders is the norm for some people (at least) for day trips, I'm not sure there's really much you're going to be able to do about it. You have to trust him to do the right thing by your child, in the same way that he is going to have to trust you. Do you really want to have to ask for his permission to have a day out every time you fancy it?

I think it really is going to depend on where you are and what the culture is and how you expect things to go in the future. Try and see it from both sides and remember that if you 'forbid' your ex to do something, he too can expect the same kind of 'courtesy' from you in the future. Long term thinking can help resolve issues like this sometimes. Do you trust him to bring your child back without any problems?

So they hadn't necessarily gone very far? My dad lives in south Holland so he could be in Belgium or Germany within a fairly short period of time - faster than I could be out of Yorkshire, certainly :) And it was a day trip?

Just to be clear, I am not stopping stbxh from going anywhere with dc, I am simply asking him to give me notice that he will be taking him out of the country when and if he does.

He seemed to think it was an abuse of my "power" that I would like to be told this about my own child. He is feeling a bit helpless and lashing out with his tongue because he wants another chance but I can't go through this any more. I need some head space and some peace and quiet. He loves drama but I want to work to a mutual set of rules as early as possible.

As we need to write an official separation later with agreed rules on childcare I want to put this in the agreement. I just wanted feedback that this seemed like a reasonable request. It works both ways. Why wouldn't I tell him I was visiting another country?

i tell the xp that when we go someone that isn't usual. we're away for the weekend. (ok in the country) but i've still told him so he's aware.

it's just common courtesy.

Thanks for the replies.

He apologized tonight when they returned, and admitted that his outburst and lack of communication before hand was out of order.

But these are upsetting times for all and I think guidelines are important to establish some sort if agreement and acceptance of how to move ahead.

it's very difficult. It sounds as if you live on the borders of several countries, so to you, going out of the country is almost like me taking a daytrip to London so not the same in terms of if I were to say take my ds out of the country - iyswim.

At the moment you are living in the same house but are still separated, am I correct? so while the dc are essentially still living in your house there are still times when they are with their father and not you. Once you are no longer living together your xh will be taking the children places and there is no need to consult you on that. And I can see that daytrips to other countries are probably normal practice where you live? Can I ask, is this his country? because if so he probably doesn't see taking the dc out of the country in the same way as you do.

I would want to know if my xh was taking my ds out of the country, but as we are no longer together I also accept that at times he may do things which I am unaware of, and that is in fact his right, although he's not actually that inconsiderate.