can xH stop me looking after my sons in place of his nanny?

[allegrageller]

I am asking although I think he probably can, to see if anyone else has been in a similar situation and if there are any arguments I might be able to use, etc.

We have been separated for 2 and a half years but xH only just coughed up the financial information (git....) So we are now in process of sorting out long term arrangements for housing etc.

I had originally had work quite a long way from where he lives in london, a new job I had got just before our split. I had wanted to take the children with me as I am an academic, he is a commercial barrister and I clearly had a lot more flexible time for them than he did. But no way- he has insisted on rigid 50:50 with a strict 3.5 day per week handover. He is a commercial barrister, a very caring dad to the boys but deeply controlling and hates my guts, as I was the one who left after many years of dissatisfaction.

To cut a long story short, I managed to get a job near London which is now being moved another hour away. The university are far more demanding then my previous employers, I have not been allowed to work the flexible time I need to see the boys during term time and fit in a 2 hour commute. Due to my being a p/t single parent and the acrimony of the divorce which has exacerbated an underlying chronic depression and fatigue, I can't handle it any more, and I am applying for voluntary redundancy as of next year.

I am still in rented accommodation (due to my having a breakdown and leaving, he got the house) and waiting on him to produce enough cash for me to buy a house of my own. He is adamant he will not sell the one he is in, although he has almost no capital, so I don't see how he can avoid it. Sadly I foresee a big legal battle coming up on that. My solicitor says it is not likely to be approved by a court, that I should subsist in smaller rented accommodation while he is sitting in a 5 bed house.

So, I will be unemployed, most likely, unless I can get p/t teaching in London. I am very unlikely with my not too impressive CV, to get a lecturer post here.
(I will keep trying, nonetheless).

xH works from 8-7 even on 'his' days with the boys and employs a (horrible) nanny. I recently enquired whether as I was not likely to be working for a good while it might be better for the boys if I picked them up from his house on those days and dropped them back. My eldest in particular cannot stand the nanny and keeps asking for her to be 'fired'!! She used to work for us both, and was quite dreadful- negative, badtempered and expressionless. xH has done nothing to remedy the situation at all.

His reply was that he did not want to have to see me 3 days a week even if I was only dropping off and picking up the kids, that the days were 'his' to do what he liked with and that if I tried to 'take over' childcare from his nanny he would take me to court immediately to get an injunction against this.

He is also in a total rage that I have applied for redundancy. He sees me, I think, as a good worker but a useless mother (without much real evidence for either of those things...) and thinks I am making a terrible mistake giving up a job 2 hours from our kids, which he wasn't prepared to do a single thing to enable me to keep, except telling me it was 'ok and I didn't have to see the kids during term time if it was too difficult'. Etc.

I think he's also now very afraid of possibly having to pay more maintenance. But then he's paying a nanny vast amounts already, as I pointed out.

I should also point out that I'm officially 'disabled' under the Equality Act (as have bipolar type II depression which has got an awful lot worse since the divorce and associated work stress) but have been able to cope fine with the children on their own, or the job on its own- but not both. And the kids have to come first.

He seems to think I'm doing all this just to piss him off and doesnt' seem to realise it is killing me to have to effectively give up my career. And that wanting to spend more time with my own children does not equate to wanting to 'take them away' from him or interfere with his life.

Anyway. Thank you for getting through my sad rant, if you managed it.

bump. Apols, I know it is boring. but I really could do with hearing Mners opinions on whether I've got an argument for replacing H's nanny.

tbh I can't think of a reason as to why you could have the children on 'his' days.
Sorry - it sounds a total nightmare of a situation and he sounds a right arse.

Unless you can go back to court to challenge the access arrangements.

Your situation makes me feel very sad for you and your children and I hope you can work something quickly for your sanity.

thanks whyme.

It is a nightmare sadly. We had a horrible end of marriage, mostly due to my crap behaviour and mental health issues, but I think that 2 and a half years later he should be treating his kids' mother as a human being not a lesser babysitter/inconvenience.

And god knows I have taken my punishment in losing my house, job and 50% of my time with my kids.

Well, at least now I know for sure I was right to leave him!! (he never seemed like this much of an arse when we were married, tbh- I think he is now embittered as hell and grabbing control wherever he can)

Do you mean that you think he is legally justified as to banning me from the kids in favour of his nanny on his days? I think, sadly that you are right.

Irony of ironies, my job (soon to be ex- job :() is as a family law lecturer and although I haven't seen any cases of this exact type, I think that when an arrangement is made e.g. 50:50 the parent in 'charge' on those days can do exactly what he likes.

A part of me feels like turning up at school on 'his' days when the nanny turns up, because of course they would want to come to me, but I dont' want to put the poor boys through a scene like that.

It does sound horrendous. I am only speaking from my brother's experience when he seperated from the mother of his two children. In the mediation they had his ex complained about my db leaving the dc's with a babysitter (it was a relative anyway). The ex was informed that on my db's contact time then he could choose what to do - if he was working he could choose his own childcare and the ex had no say in it. And he could even enjoy a night out as long as the children were cared for.

I would not recommend turning up at school, as you said I think your dc's would just end up more distressed.

Sorry I can't offer anything to help. Although my db and his ex are 'sorted' now in their arrangements and although not quite amicable they manage enough now to not need to go back to the solicitors.

What is the residence arrangement? Is it formalised? What does the Court Order say? If the court has stated that it's exactly 50:50, then he can have whatever arrangements in place that he likes. The only way to challenge this would be to go back to court to vary the order.

Hi Allegra

I too am a university lecturer and know what a challenging and time consuming job it can be, without a 2 hour commute. I work 4 days and have requested to reduce it to 3, as I am finding it too hard to cope with DC's, the house and trying to have some sort of a life myself too. Have you thought of requesting to work part time instead of giving up your job entirely? If you worked 2.5 or 3 days, you would still be eligible to claim working tax credits, which would help suppliment your income and you might be able to organise your work pattern on the days you don't have the children. Just a thought.

If the nanny is so crap what about sacking her?

BUT is the 50/50 down in writing and rubber stamped? If not I would suggest you take him to court and apply for the kids to be with you. YOU are home all day (after you give up work), there will be no need for the nanny and he will see them at the weekend.

but the nanny is employed by ex h so the op does not have any say in who looks after the children when it is his contact time.

hi all. Thanks for these responses.

The nanny was originally a shared employee. I actually hired her (as I was in a tight spot, the one I preferred turned the job down, and she didn't seem that bad at first....) and rapidly became disillusioned. My main issue was seeing her fail to respond verbally to the children at all when they asked normal questions etc, and shouting at them in my presence, as if I wasn't there.... I could have taken the numerous incidents of rudeness to me, if the kids had liked her. In November last year I had had enough and told her from now on I did not want her to work for me and she could come to whatever arrangements with my x she wanted. Cue angry phone calls and texts from x: 'this is unacceptable behaviour, you have ruined MY childcare arrangements and your working relationship wiith MY nanny' etc etc. Ever since then x has continued to employ her on the same contract e.g. pays her for a day's work she doesn't do, because I cover it!! you couldn't make this stuff up. (People have asked me, hearing this, whether he's having an affair with her...I can only say that I frankly doubt it!!!)

The 50:50 is not a court order lisad, however I am pretty sure if I went to court it would not be varied, as courts are obsessed with the 'status quo' and do not want to disturb it. Paid carers seem to be treated as equivalent to the parent, or at least the courts don't care about them. He has told me before that he will NEVER accept less than exactly 50:50. He is obsessed with it: it seems to be a very controlling-man thing, the idea that everything must be FAIR (to him that is, not the kids).

Greedy, I'm already on a p/t contract as of September but the hours are so stupid on my job that it was 65 hours p/w when full time so if I did p/t it would still be equivalent to a 'normal' f/t job and that is without the loony travelling time. The Head of School was a nightmare and obsessed with presenteeism and 'team contribution' which meant you were expected to come to meetings etc at whatever day and time, even if p/t etc. Constantly putting me on committees, blah blah, and expecting extra 'contributions'.

Plus, I know that if I stay p/t only going in 2 days p/w or so, I'll never be promoted anyway and the money will barely be worth it as I will often be paying for overnight stays etc. I might as well stay here and write a bit more, apply for other jobs here etc. (Well, this is what I think now....I'm comforting myself I guess as it hurts v much to lose my job as well as everything else).

oh btw another thing he is saying is that he doesn't have the money to support me to 'sit on my arse' (he is a commercial barrister and very, very well off). I may counterargue that I am offering to replace his nanny who I believe he pays about £40k per year gross so that might (just) make it harder for him to plead poverty.

allegrageller
Like you, I have an informal 50:50 care arrangement for my DD with my exH, and a few months ago I found myself in a similar position to yourself - I accepted an offer of voluntary redundancy from my professional office position, and have embarked upon a new direction.

My exH was FURIOUS! I have no idea why, as we had a clean break divorce - he's not supporting me at all and I have no call on him, but somehow, he thought it was a direct insult to him. In his attempts to "punish" me for giving up my job, he manipulated a situation which resulted in my having to refuse DD the changes to her childcare arrangements which she proposed. It got very messy and unpleasant for a while, and is still frosty to say the least!

With or without a Court Order, I doubt that there is anything you can do to influence who cares for your DC when they are in their dads care. There are legal rights you could exercise - you could pick them up from school when the Nanny is due to do so (the school should honour your PR over their fathers paid representative), or you could even go and collect them from the Nanny at his home (if the Nanny refuses to place the DC's in your care, you can involve the police), but this WILL cause a scene that will distress the children - it will force the issue into the open though and allow it to be dealt with.

I am surprised you think that the family court will likely maintain the status quo if you apply for a residency order, however.
The reason I say that is that my experience with CAFCASS (via DP, who has been through the Family Court) is their reluctantance to recommend joint residency (which DP applied for) unless the parents are successfully co-parenting. This is clearly not the case, so I would have thought it is likely that CAFCASS will recommend that DC's are resident with you, with a Contact Order in relation to the time they spend with exH

Of course, your exH is not going to make it easy for you given his profession and likely contacts -but I am sure that you could find an experienced family law professional to take him on if you wanted to sort this out once and for all.

I managed, after a lot of negotiation with exH (and lots of wine for me) to secure his agreement that he would no longer rely on childcare for DD when she was in his care; DD now comes to me every day after school, and is picked up by exH when he finishes work.
I don't really want him on the doorstep of my home every day - but DD is a lot happier, and I try to put my own feelings to one side. DD is also older, so able to answer the door to him, and leave, without my assistance :)

Really NotaDisney? you think the court would vary our 50:50?

I would be surprised if they would just because I get the impression they are obsessed with the status quo and the no order principle, meaning they basically want parents to go away and stop quibbling.

xH finds it hard to restrain his personal contempt for me in any sort of official situation, so it would seem we would certainly not look like good co-parents. However, he has more money and is claiming to offer 'stability where I offer chaos' as was his line last time. He cites my mental health issues repeatedly on this, despite the fact that apparently they are not bad enough to preclude my having 50% custody If I got the wrong judge, someone prejudiced against 'mentally ill' women as mothers, it could possibly go against me.

So, anyway I have a strong feeling that if i apply for full weekday residence: a. xH will go insane with fury, with ill effects on all b. the judge will tell me s/he doesn't care and to bugger off. But we'll see, i may do it if he keeps on being such a twat. In particular if he tries to cut my maintenance as some sort of punishment for becoming redundant voluntarily, he knows bloody well that I will fight back on any front I can (as long as it doesn't cause any more disruption to the children than he is already causing, if you see what I mean).

xH has no contacts in the family court and is clueless about family law. To the extent that he has just asked for a 'clean break' on the Form E despite the fact that he has no capital whatever to achieve one and I have diagnosed mental health issues which restrict me to p/t work for the time being anyway so I am entirely unable to subsist in an expensive area of London without an income from him.

I think exes like ours are obsessed with somehow limiting contact with 'their' children just in case they start having to feel like 'second best' or something. This is total bollocks since in my case anyway ds2 in particular far prefers his dad and both prefer his house as it is bigger, nicer and the one they have always lived in. xH has nothing to fear at all and I find his attitude childish in the extreme. But hey ho I had kids with the git so this is what I have to live with for the next 12-14 years...

Is there any way you can become financially independent from him?
All the while he is paying you maintenance (as well as for the DC's) he will believe he has some influence over your life. It may take some juggling and might not be possible straight away, but if you can work towards it, I am certain it will make things easier for you.

I can only say that when SO went to family court for a Section 8 joint residency order, the CafCass officer said that given the hostility between SO and his ex, she recommended sole residency with their mother and EOW contact with SO - despite the fact that exW works shifts and relies on her disabled mother for overnight care several days a week!
I am afraid to say that the courts appear very mother-focussed to me - which will help your cause if you do seek a Residency Order (I would always recommend it in cases of high-conflict separation/divorce).

BTW - who is claiming the child benefit? If it's you - I suggest you apply through the CSA for child maintenance if you haven't already done so (it will be adjusted to reflect the nights the DCs spend with exH) and look into Tax Credits; you may be eligible. This might help you break away from him financially - until that happens I'm sure he will continue to believe he controls you

I agree NotaDisney. however I'm in a bit of a stranglehold atm as it was very hard for me to get the job I've actually got now, and the London academic job market is ludicrously competitive.

Colleagues here are saying that if I write and publish now and then, I'll still be in the game and be able to get work later. I could survive quite happily on a lecturer's bottom-rung salary IF i didnt' have to live in a pricey part of London and afford a house big enough for me and 2 kids. So once the kids are older I can move out. That is the long term plan.

Excuse my asking a personal question but given that you now do full time childcare how have you managed to achieve financial independence from x? I'm in the situation that if I work, for a good half of the year I'm totally unavailable to my kids and that is not OK. But obviously without the job I can't be independent.

I claim the child benefit btw but thought that I didn't qualify for any maintenance from CSA as we have 50:50? The pretty high maintenance amount he now pays me reflects the fact that he knows I am spitting about being threatened with injunctions regarding my/our house and his nanny, and his complete rigidity regarding my job situation, and that one more push will knock me right into court. Cos if I am financially crippled as well, I have not much more to lose (and solicitor assures me I would be able to claim legal fees back from him given his massive income).

The one silver lining to this situation is that I will have more time for the boys, which they clearly want from one of us, and it isn't going to be x.

When my exH and I split, it was agreed that I would 'buy him out' of his half of the family home with the proportion of his pension that I was entitled to - effectively, he kept his pension, I kept the house and transferred the mortgage/ownership to my sole name. The alternative was that I could stay in the house until DD was 18 and then the equity would be split between us.

I had a F/T job, so did exH and DD was in childcare - she continued with that, we both continued to work, and the cost was split between us 50:50.

With my income, child benefit, CSA and tax credit, I had enough to make ends meet, just! I cut back in lots of areas to make do - exH stripped the house of our belongings - without the TV, games consoles and computers, the electricity bill dropped by 40%!!

You can still apply to the CSA even if there is a 50:50 care arrangement - I suggest you go and speak to citizens advice to find out exactly what you are entitled to in your situation.

My situation has changed now; i am self employed and work part time around DDs schooling :-)

I'm also sharing my life, and home, with a wonderful man - I sold the former family home and used what little equity there was to pay off debts from the marriage; it seemed fitting!

Why don't you move/relocate? It sounds like you feel trapped by an agreement that clearly isn't working and is not binding - if you live some distance from your exH, then a different contact/residency arrangement could be put in place for DCs.

Excellent! I need to find some sort of self-employment, but what there is is not really suitable for ex academics I feel...we'll see though.

Moving/relocating would be perfect. But he has made it clear he will drag me through the courts relentlessly if I try to change the boys school before they are 16 (!!) and I couldn't bear to feel excluded from that part of their lives.

I live in hope that as they get older and can express a preference /travel around more by themselves, I will regain a little of my freedom. Until then, if I'm going to be trapped I am going to make bloody sure he pays me for it, if you see what I mean.

I was going to relocate to where my university is (about 2 1/2 hours from London) but it was made clear to me that he would see me in court if I wanted to see the boys during term more than every other weekend. And with a 65 hour working week as well, I would end up booted out of their everyday lives, just a 'holiday mum', which I couldnt' stand.

I don't get to sell the house either as he's in it :S although if he starts pleading poverty, I'll make sure it gets sold from under him to provide the necessary capital, frankly.

I'm scared of going to court against xH. He is abusive and ruthless in that sort of situation (commercial barrister...sees it all as a big battle). At mediation he made clear that he would be prepared to tell all sorts of lies to the court, paint me a severely mentally ill and neglectful abuser rather than someone who has suffered depression but is managing. Etc. He was also bringing up exaggerated sh*t about my sexual behaviour the year after I left him, for the mediator's apparent benefit (I don't think she was very impressed with him). He told me that the kids were 'happier with him' and also with his nanny, and that the nanny was 'as good a parent as I was'. That kind of thing. I had a breakdown after the last mediation and don't think I could handle it again.

Please don't take offence - but have you considered seeking support from a domestic abuse charity?
What you are describing is a very emotionally abusive man who will stop at nothing to get what he wants.
Your children are young - do you really want to live like this for the next 10/15 years?
You can't allow your life to be dictated to by your exH; if he is prepared to threaten you about moving, then think what other changes he will try to influence - what if you meet someone else? I think you need to regain control of your own life and eliminate his influence over your life.

Try the NDVH - 0808 2000 247 - they are not just there to support women who are victims of physical violence, they will help and support those who are struggling with emotional abuse, too.

I was referred to my solicitor through the DA Team at the local police station (my exH was also emotionally abusive and is/was an addict); a trained volunteer came with me to my first appointment, and met me for coffee a few times until I got myself back on my feet.
Please don't be afraid to ask for help - your exH has no right to threaten you, and by doing so he indicates that he is a bad influence for your DC's

I agree entirely NotaDisney. I've dealt with exH's abuse mostly by sitting on it, trying to adapt my life to it rather than let it affect the dcs (although of course by driving me nuts, it has.) I have been through phases of raging and wanting to do anything I could to get out of his control but they were unrealistic and died down pretty quickly.

His level of material success and his high tolerance of conflict situations mean that he will probably 'outdo' me in any public arena such as a court. Plus- and this is the worst bit- my kids adore him. I can't start a huge running battle. I have to be better than him.

But I agree the threats are truly appalling and I have never received a word of apology for them beyond 'well sometimes when we are under stress we say things we don't mean' :S

I do actually have another partner but oddly he has not yet made any direct fuss about that. However, DP does not live with me and is abroad atm. I can tell that xH doesn't like the idea of him at all though, as he has blatantly blanked him once when DP said hello from the front seat of the car, and will not respond at all to any mention of his name: it's as if he has to pretend I just don't have a DP.

I know that when I first met DP (he's younger and a postgrad student) there was a lot of open derision about my 'toyboy' etc but it's been over a year now so I don't think xH knows what attitude to take anymore!

xx

Hello OP, I would strongly suggest you get a solicitor specialising in family law to help you sort this out. As a commercial barrister, your ex has less sway or influence in the family law courts than you fear, as it is not his area of work, and contacts in the legal world don't count for as much as the actual law - ie a judge wouldn't bend the law in his favour if that meant breaking the law. If your children are old enough, the court may be able to hear statements from them about how unhappy they are with his arrangements without making them actually appear in court. They will rule in the best interests of the child.

The court can't dictate who he hires but if you show that he is raising his sons in an abusive home (shouting and emotional neglect by carer) and has not paid heed to your concerns to improve things, then you may get more days with your children, I think - ask your solicitor. Don't forget the courts are still slightly more in favour of the mum versus the dad when it comes to residence/custody. I suspect your ex read up in the books as to how much he could get away with, hence his attempts to intimidate you. Also you can point out that you've made a decision to look after them more as this is a crucial period in their formative years, and hence that is why you are not working, not that you left your job because the commuting or the job was too tough (just make sure you haven't actually put that in writing!). Also, it sounds like he could be trying to wriggle out of paying maintenance to you with regards looking after the children also - he doesn't want you to stop working because if you have less income and assets he'd have to pay more. Again, go through all this with your solicitor. I suspect your ex knows you actually have a pretty good case and is trying to avoid losing (and losing money).

You need a decent solicitor. Family law is way too complicated for anyone to offer general principles here. You can get an initial free appointment with someone and suss out how the land lies, maybe?

And if you fired a nanny because you believed her to be mistreating your kids, then your ex insisting upon retaining her and refusing to allow them more time with you may not be regarded as placing their interests ahead of his own - which is all courts are interested in. There is a gulf between one parent arranging good childcare in their half of a co-parenting arrangement, and allowing your kids to be ill-treated rather than the other parent providing care. Plus your kids are small still, aren't they - especially the younger? A parent offering care may also weigh more heavily, I just don't know. You need a solicitor.

I agree that he sounds like he is being so aggressive because he knows your case is good. You working so hard a way away made his case stronger.

Certainly in my case it was said at court in scotland , he is not spending his contact time with the children a nanny is doing his job and u r available. Therefore you Shld defo challenge this.
My x is the same no exactly wot u r going through. I have fought he every step though I will not give up. This is all wrong!!! Good luck.