carers assessment - charging for care

[DougalButty]

Mum just had a carers assessment, she’s a full time 24 hr carer for my Dad, who has dementia. She just had a carers assessment and was just offered some leaflets, no actual help.
She asked what would happen if she was ill or in an accident and was unable to care for Dad. She was told that social services would step in for 48 hours then the family would be liable for care costs. Is this correct? Neither my parents or myself have anywhere near the money to pay for this. No savings, only asset is the house they live in.

Has your dad had a Needs Assessment? That will identify his care needs and financial situation, ie whether he can afford to self-fund care or not. If there are no or little savings (the threshold seems to be £23k or £16k) then the council will need to organise and pay for his care. A Needs Assessment now will put him on the council's radar and should (in theory) make it easier for them to step in if an emergency arises in future.

Are you in Scotland? Did you not get funded carer visits?

Personal care is free in Scotland, do they charge in England for care? What was the point in the assessment- just to give leaflets ?

In England. The carers assessment was for Mum, the carer, not Dad, the person with dementia. They didn’t offer her anything just said she could have an emergency card with a number to ring if she became incapacitated, and they would cover Dad’s care for 48 hours, after which, family would have to pay.
i also thought they might offer her respite so she could have a break from caring, but no.

I think what they probably mean is that after 48 hours your Dad would be means tested to ascertain how much he would need to pay towards his homecare.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-homecare/

I think you need to get a Needs Assessment for your Dad as he is person with dementia. There may come a time your Mum can't care for him at home anymore as dementia gets worse. If he went into a nursing home I think if your parents had no assets other than their house th council would pay for care and when your Mum dies the house gets sold and the car costs for your Dad would be taken from sale of house money but the first £23k of your Mum's estate would not count.

Your dad needs to have an assessment in order for any respite to be put in place. I would request this now rather than later as the waiting list is usually long for the assessment itself.

That is not quite right. The costs of his care would not come from the sale of the house. If the Mum is living in it, the value is completely disregarded and no charge is put on it. If the Dad dies first, the Council won't clawback money for his care when the Mum dies.

If the Mum died first and the Dad was still in care, then the value of the house would be taken into account from that point on, if no further disregards applied. Similarly if the Mum went into care.

Eta:unless the rules have changed recently!

Apply for attendance allowance

If Dad has dementia so severe that he cannot do anything for himself, surely he should be assessed for continuing NHS care?

Unlikely to qualify unless he has a lot of medical needs that need to be delivered by a qualified nurse
Not being able to do anything for yourself doesn't count - that's "social care"

No medical needs, but he could not be left alone as he would become upset. He requires someone to be with him and available all day and at night time, otherwise he’d be at risk of wandering or accident. He is articulate and mobile but unable to perform all household tasks required of day to day living (dressing, cooking, cleaning, etc).

Then what he requires is a needs assessment from the adult social care department of your local authority. I would urge you to request this as soon as possible. My dad waited 8 months.

You need to have your dad assessed by social services using a needs assessment, carers assessment only covers the carer. Savings need to be under £23,250 to qualify for social services to pay and they will do a financial assessment on your parents household income. Your income doesn't count. The needs assessment is what opens the door to funded respite etc it doesn't automatically mean that your mum has to have carers for your dad, but given you've said he can't be left alone it may be time to look at a morning or evening care visit so that she's not doing everything or reliant on you to help her, then care visits can be increased as his needs change. Caring like that becomes exhausting. In our case dad was physically disabled when mum first developed dementia, so social services put in 1 care visit to help him wash. As the dementia progressed mum needed assistance taking medication correctly, then eventually had to move into care as she started physically attacking dad. So social services increased dad's care visits to 4 a day. It's important to get the needs assessment done so that things can be put in place should your mum be unable to continue 24/7 caring

Thanks everyone, so it looks like the key is to request a needs assessment for Dad in order to access any respite care or help in the home.
I have heard this can be a minefield. Can anyone offer any tips on how to negotiate the assessment so that:

1. The council does not just assume that I will just take over care if Mum is unable to
2. Myself or Mum do not end up liable to pay top up fees on a care home

Do your parents gave savings? Was this a hoing assessment - hers a carers and his a needs assessment? If not, then your father needs one. Your parents can call the council and tell them that they want a care act assessment for him.

I read recently that joint owners of a house should ensure that they are tenants in common (I always get mixed up) the type that ring fences each 50% of ownership so that care costs can only be taken from one person's half of the property.

Two excellent sources of information:

https://www.dementiauk.org/

https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/

Dementia UK has a lot of information and also access to Admiral Nurses on a telephone helpline or you can book a call with them.

Alzheimer's Society includes all forms of dementia, not only Alzheimer's. They have an online forum too where people post questions and advice.

In answer to your questions.

1. State that to you are not available to take over care (we all lived too far away and worked full time) and don't feel guilty about doing so.
2. You won't ever be liable (see previous comment about your finances ) If your dad moves into a care home, a financial assessment is completed at the time to determine whether he is 'self funding' (pays all or part of the fees) or not. Again, this depends on the threshold of £23,250 savings and the house. If he's not self funding, then they would place him where they deem affordable and you'd have less choice.

The LA I work for never assume family take over care unless they actively say they want to but even then I'm sceptical

That is incorrect. If the house is still lived in by a spouse it is completely disregarded in the financial needs assessment fir a care home
www.independentage.org/sites/default/files/2025-09/Factsheet-Care-home-fees-Property-disregards-and-deferred-payments_0.pdf

Just to add, your parent’s home (if they own it) will not be taken into consideration in a financial assessment for your dad if he needs to go into a care home if your mum still lives there and is over 60. Only half of joint savings will be considered, but all of your dad’s income from pensions will be included. Eg
Joint savings £50k
State pension £800 pm
Private pension £200 pm

Dad’s savings of £25k would be included plus his monthly pension less a weekly personal allowance of £30ish. So he would be expected to pay around £900 from income plus around £25 from savings (until his savings fell to £14K). The LA would top up his fees. But he would have limited choice of care home.

If he needed care at home, he would be expected to pay and would need to claim Attendance Allowance.
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/siteassets/documents/factsheets/fs46_paying_for_care_and_support_at_home_fcs.pdf
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/siteassets/documents/factsheets/fs10_paying_for_permanent_residential_care_fcs.pdf

Thank you. Attendance allowance is already in place. But savings are less than £10k.

Same here- if family are offering care and want to do it then great, but my starting point as an assessor is to look at the needs the person has as if they don't have any family support and then work from there.

OP How has it come about that your mum has had a carers assessment? Did she self refer or did someone refer on her behalf? The person who came out to do the carers assessment should have suggested asking the local authority for a Care Act Assessment for dad, you shouldn't have needed mumsnet to tell you that.

Is it possible he is already on the waiting list for an assessment?

Hi, I requested the carers assessment for mum, via an online form, and asked for a needs assessment for Dad too. The council called me back and said that I cannot request an assessment for Dad myself because of GDPR. They said it has to be requested by phone and Dad has to go on the phone to say he agrees to the assessment request. We haven’t done that yet because they only do this in working hours and I work full time. So I’d have to arrange time off to do this (which I will, but it isn’t immediate). As a result of all this, Mum got her carers assessment first.
Nothing was said in the carers assessment about getting a needs assessment for Dad. The results of her carers assessment basically just repeat what she is already doing and suggest the emergency carers card.