Alzheimer and driving

[missblossomhill]

Hi everyone
My mum has been diagnosed with alzheimers and at the appointment the consultant advised we have to inform the DVLA. I have completed the forms but unsure how this affects the car insurance. It's currently due for renewal at the end of this month, I have logged in to the online account and there is no option to add the diagnosis. She is on the policy as an additional driver. There is just a list of specifications and a tick box, on of these being "i confirm all medical conditions have been reported to DVLA".
But what happens in-between the DVLA making a decision/investigation, is she technically not covered as the diagnosis hasn't been added to the insurance? I don't know whether to try and remove her from the current as well as the renewal or what?
Do the DVLA contact the insurance company? Do they advise us to do that? Does anyone know how long the DVLA will take to come back to us?
Sorry if this is all a bit muddled and thank you for staying with me to the end xx

I was diagnosed with a reportable condition. I notified the DVLA and told my insurance company. There was nowhere online to tell them so I phoned them. It hasn’t affected my insurance premiums.

Sorry to hear about your mums diagnosis. Is there a reason not to tell her she has to stop driving now? I don't think I'd wait for the DVLA to investigate. If someone has got to the stage where Alzheimer's has been diagnosed, they will not be able to process road conditions well enough to be safe.

It's really hard stopping elderly parents driving but it's a moral imperative that we do so when we know they aren't safe. Lots of us have been through it. You can get support and strategies on here, the Cockroach Cafe thread is super helpful.

This isn't necessarily true. Some people with Alzheimer's are able to continue driving safely for a few years after diagnosis.

The DVLA will usually contact the consultant who made the diagnosis and other relevant medical professionals to help them decide. They may also request that the person with Alzheimer's have a driving assessment through a charity like Drivability to be sure.

Ring them and remove her from the current policy and the new one. She can’t be driving.

Blimey if that is true that’s mad. Would you take the risk? If they were in an accident or hurt someone wouldn’t you always think ‘why didn’t I stop them driving.’

The consultant has advised you that your mom shouldn’t be driving and your worry is about renewing insurance? Have I got that right?

That's not what the OP said - she said that the consultant said her mum needed to report it to the DVLA, which is true, as that's a legal requirement with a dementia diagnosis. It's then for the DVLA to investigate and determine whether she should still be driving.

As others have said, it's not necessarily the case that someone with Alzheimers is immediately unsafe to drive. The question is, OP, how long the process takes, and how robust it is. We went through the same process with a relative, and the DVLA simply never responded (in spite of us chasing and being told it was in progresd). The relative lost driving confidence within a few months of diagnosis and therefore stopped driving voluntarily anyway, but who knows how long it would have taken otherwise?

From what you've seen, OP, do you still feel your DM is safe to drive at the moment?

Give them a ring and let them know

The Consultant told us to go and have a driver's assessment. This was done and they recommended that instruction and another assessment was needed if parent wished to continue driving. Parent's driving licence ran out during Covid before we could organise the instruction. I think parent was actually quite relieved. It's easier for us as I moved in during lockdown so now I am the chauffeur (amongst other things).

I think stopping is the safest thing for everyone. My best friend's father had Alzheimers. He only stopped when he was sitting at the junction at the end of his road and didn't know where he was.

You don't mention your DM's living situation, but if you claim Council Tax SMI discount and Attendance Allowance, you can use the money for taxis so that she can still get around.

The DVLA won't allow her to drive.

Alzheimer's is a progressive deterioration of the brain. Unfortunately it impairs key skills needed to drive : alertness, spatial awareness, reaction time, as well as legal responsibility if she caused an accident. An impairment of the brain may affect her legal capacity to make decisions and take responsibility. The DVLA will just not take that risk.

Now is a really good time to hang up the car keys I'm afraid. Poor lady, it's an absolute terrible disease (lost dearly loved family members to it) . I Wish you luck for your mum's future

My fil has mixed dementia and drives. He has to have a yearly assessment

My job involves completing disability forms often for clients with Alzheimers. they love to proudly tell me how they are still driving. Scary.

As much as I feel so sorry for people who have dementia (and their loved ones ) common sense has to kick in- I feel sorrier for the other road users (or pedestrians) the driver is ok until they're not ok. And it's usually an accident of differing degrees of seriousness that is the final wake up call for the family.

In my experience family condoning their loved one driving still, with clear cognitive decline, is like a form of denial. (Speaking from experience within my own family )

It's up to the DVLA whether someone with dementia is ok to drive. It's not up to family members to think they know better and dictate to them. They are not children.

No, but they are mentally impaired.

In our family the partner of the person who had a dementia diagnosis was even more resistent to him giving up driving than him when he had his dementia diagnosis as it would curtail their social life (she didn't drive) and they'd have to spend money on taxis (they were very well off imo). I dobbed him into the DVLA when I returned his licence for renewal form because he was a dangerous driver, frequently got lost (think a 2hr journey to friends took them 8hrs because they could read diversions/roadsigns quickly enough to react), and had no spatial awareness and would knock into other car wing mirrors more frequently. They lived right by a school and I dread to think of him driving around when the streets were busy and killing a schoolkid.

Surely family members with concerns have been in the car with them and would know exactly how safe they were to continue to drive. The onus has to be on the safety of other road users/pedestrians.
A local man was killed outside a high street shop only a few years ago by someone with dementia who had not reported themselves to the dvla and continued to drive. The driver apologising to the dead mans family is not enough.

Have you faced the reality of caring for parents with memory problems in extreme old age? Actually, many parents with memory issues become quite childlike, and the task of caring for them can become like a nightmare reversal of childrearing as they gradually become less and less able to cope independently while expecting their family to pick up the pieces when they get into a pickle.

Obviously we need to respect the rights and capacity of elderly people, and be careful not to infantilise them. But one of the features of dementia can be total denial that there are any problems. That's not going to help people make good decisions about whether they are safe to drive.

The DVLA is no substitute for the family who know the driver. The Cockroach Cafe thread is full of posts from carers who know their relative is unsafe and are asking how to stop them driving. Obviously we can't know about this particular parent but actually quite often, dictating to them is absolutely the right thing to do.

That’s a really bad understanding of Alzheimer’s.

every person is different. My husband drove for 18 months after diagnosis, and then decided to stop.
a couple of friends are still driving.

telling somone that diagnosis means no more driving is wrong. And unhelpful

It was based on my own experience of two elderly relatives with Alzheimer's, one of whom (pre diagnosis but when everyone around them had grave concerns) insisted they were safe to drive then reversed into a stationary motorbike. We then had to stop them driving long before they were willing to accept they shouldn't. There have been countless similar cases on the Cockroach Cafe thread.

I obviously haven't experienced every possible manifestation of Alzheimer's, and people who are managing the early stages well obviously won't be posting in distress on the Cockroach Cafe thread. But I think it's fair to say that a significant number of people with Alzheimer's would consider themselves safe to drive well beyond the point they actually are. But obviously not all.

Many people in the early stages of the illness have capacity to drive.
by not treating people as individuals - you force this disease to be treated as something to be ashamed of.

sadly - I now know far too many people with various kinds of dementia.

blanket statements about it are not helpful.

tbis is just my opinion and my lived deeply personal experience

You prompted me to look up the research and clearly you are quite right and many people do drive with an Alzheimer's diagnosis. I shouldn't have extrapolated from my own quite distressing experience of trying to manage dangerous driving in those with undiagnosed dementia.

But I do find that checklist of how to continue driving a bit unnerving. The key thing is how you will judge when you are no longer safe. It's hard to see how that will happen without waiting for the near miss that acts as a wake up call. And some of those near misses might be actual collisions.

www.alzheimers.org.uk/get-support/staying-independent/keep-driving-dementia-diagnosis#content-start

so to hear your sad news
It’s a tricky one
I would probably ring the insurance just to be on the safe side- just in case she forgets and goes out in the car .
There are strict guidelines about driving with medical conditions they are written for doctors etc but I think anyone can access them online- just found something on the Alzheimer’s association website which looks helpful