Mother sectioned

[JulesIM]

I’m a heartbroken daughter, please help

My frail 84 year old mother with advanced dementia was in our opinion illegally sectioned from a care home this week. We are currently engaging with healthcare barristers on this. She wasn’t given family representation, consultation was not given with her gp or her social worker or her carer of four years.

Does anyone else have a loved one who has been sectioned from a care home, simply because they can’t cope with them?

Thank you

Jules

Sent from my iPhone

In my experience working with dementia patients on a unit etc once they're out of the care home they won't be going back to it, that's the way they get them out op. It sounds like your mum needs a nursing home so this is probably the best thing for her. If it wasn't this way then if she would've needed hospital treatment at any point the care home would've refused to have her back, I've had to do the refusing myself and it isn't nice but it's the way they get them out. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh I do feel for you and your mum.

Sorry OP, as there was a gap on my screen under your post I didn't realise you had had responses and you had updated.
If you are the Nearest Relative (this would usually be the spouse/partner or eldest adult offspring, or the person the NR has delegated their powers to) then ask the Responsible Clinician (usually Consultant Psychiatrist) for an urgent meeting as you are considering applying for Discharge under S23(2). You could ask the Hospital Managers for this in writing immediately (just write 'The Hospital Managers, X Ward, Y Hospital) but would it make sense to get more information first? If the RC discharges your Mum, where do you anticipate she will go to live on the day she is discharged?
If the RC replies they have grounds under S25 to block your discharge order, then you can ask for a Tribunal to hear your appeal. The tribunal would get reports from the RC, Nursing staff on the ward and a social report. Your Mum would be entitled to free legal representation.
You could ask for a Tribunal regardless as the next step, that way the Social Worker would have a few days to look for an alternative place for your Mum to live if she is discharged.

Where is mum now, was she moved to a mental health hospital from the care home. If they claim she was a danger to herself or others do you know what was happening. She would have been assessed by 2 doctors to decide she needed to be sectioned.

Kindly what will you do with your Mum if you get the section rescinded? The original home won't take her back, and being in hospital is a good way to get her needs assessed and get her placed in an appropriate EMI home.
If the Section gets converted to a 3 you'll get 117 aftercare, which could be a bonus.
Being sectioned at her age isn't the ed of the world, it won't really impact heron any great way going forward apart from getting her in to the correct placement.

The section can be revoked but you need to urgently find a setting able to take her, this is not straightforward as dementia can present in different ways, I'm sure the previous home would not have gone to the lengths of getting a section without good reason.

This is incredibly worrying for you but please do start looking for a place that really is suitable rather than trying to get her back into the old place. Family do not need to be consulted or have representation in an emergency situation, which i presume they will be claiming

My grandad was sectioned and it meant he go placed into a secure facility suited to his needs after two weeks at an assessment unit, and the nhs picked up the full bill, not inconsiderable even back then. More recently I was involved with sorting advanced dementia care for an ex relative (complicated) and again the section, initially placed in hospital meant that she could access state funding for specialist care that would have been £2k per week and not something that social services would fund.

Why don't you change her care home? Had they given you warning this would happen ?

I guess it's a bit like when a socialist school can't meet needs of an aggressive child

Interesting , I'm at the start of the care home journey with mum and we will be financing it ( currently have enough for 8 years care ) and although it's annoying , at least money gives you choice .

I also thought they heavily medicated when they get near the end and aggressive etc

My mother was sectionned also dementia. It was a nightmare at the time but has ended up being a total blessing. It meant that once the section ended she could go into a care home that we otherwise would have had no chance of affording. She was there on a DOLS initially. They were so so cautious when they sectionned her, extremely careful to follow each step to the letter I assume to avoid legal trouble. I'm sorry you are going through this, it is really awful isn't it, and your situation sounds complicated and distressing. Could you look around for a better place for her to be, based on the funding she is likely to now get due to the section? Her social worker should be advising you on all of this.

Oh dear, your poor mum! You're doing your best xxx

You need power of attorney to discuss changing a carehome and a meeting hopefully with the Dr and nurses to assess current needs and then find a suitable home that meets those needs. If someone is very confused, agitated and aggressive it's also impossible to get them into a safe transport without being sedated or restrained. Sometimes section is the best option, it gives the doctors and mh nurses time to assess properly and hopefully come up with a treatment plan and safe placement. There can also be medical reasons for sudden confusion especially if there's been recent surgery. The care home obviously can't meet her needs, we don't know who is financing it either. It's not against the law to section someone but not giving medication deliberately without medical advice is not acceptable and someone with poa has the right to read all the notes, careplans, assessments, behaviour charts etc so I'd do that. We don't know all the details.

I have poa ans have done everything for my mum so far with no input of help from SS so I don't anticipate getting any at any point either 🙄

She should get 117 after carw

Only if she is moved to a section 3 treatment order

I’m so sorry - I see this happening a lot with care homes misusing the mental health act to dump patients into the overstretched nhs mental health services.

my son has been sectioned for 3 years (treatment resistant paranoid schizophrenia) now in such a place and I feel so sorry for the elderly patients in the nearby wards- it is not a therapeutic or caring environment anyone in your mums condition should be in.

massive squishes @JulesIM and I hope you get the help and support you need with this.

Exactly the same thing happened to a Colleague's DM recently.

The home weren't coping at all and it sounds just like your DM's situation where the home wasn't the right thing setting for her.

Hearing that a close relative has been sectioned can be scary. I would suggest visiting your DM if you can. I appreciate though that the staff may suggest that you don't fit a few days because of the risk of unsettling her further.

When a friend of the family was sectioned a few years ago the place that she was taken to was very homely and caring and I've heard similar things about the Dementia wards there. They aren't all places to be scared of.

For my Colleague's DM it was what she needed. She was obviously not settled in her Care Home and had become violent to staff and visitors.

Being sectioned meant that her needs were properly assessed and her drugs were reviewed and changed until she was much more settled.

After spending around 3 months there she's been moved to a different care home who are much more experienced and she's more settled.

If you are challenging the Section I would decide exactly what it is you want to happen. It sounds as though the last Care Home isn't willing to take her back and I think that you may have difficulty getting another hike to accept her until her medication has been reviewed and her pain is under control.

One thing that might help us talking all of this through with one of the Admiral Nurses

Good luck for tomorrow @JulesIM

It's section two

Thank you - this is amazing. We are applying for discharge. Mum is at risk and they have put her in hell. People screaming all the time, the guys are next door and hammering the walls. The staff are abusive and I've already had to raise an emergency safeguarding. I fear for mums safety and a full investigation has already been launched. With recent hip surgery she's vulnerable x

Thank you. I'm distraught as mum is not safe there. They wouldn't even let her have music as she might bang herself with the cable x

Thank you - we are applying for discharge today and also engaging a barrister x

Thank you - yes we're on it. Dad has mid stage dementia and I can't tell him his wife has been sectioned. It's ripping this family apart and the unit mum's in is dreadful. I raised a safeguarding yesterday as I'm so worried about mum's safety and the staff are abusive x

The social worker is awful and said there's nothing she can now it's in the hands of the mental health team x

She is right, sadly mum is now under the hospital team. She should have an advocate there, an IMHA or social worker. Does anyone have power of attorney or been appointed her nearest relative who will attend her review with the mh team. Is she at risk of harming herself. If the staff are abusive you can call the police too. If they do decide she is safe to be discharged where will she go, she can't go back to the old csrehome. Is she in a mh hospital on an acute admissions ward.

She’s correct. Have you visited your DM yet?