Driving and dementia

[YouCantCallMeBetty]

My parents both have dementia diagnoses and are living at home with carers going in.
My dad hasn't driven for the last year or so and seems to have accepted this, but has liked mum to drive him to places repetitively (e.g. Tesco, the tip).
Sadly my mum has now also had her licence revoked by the dvla. My brothers and I have removed her car and car keys as she had continued to drive even after her licence was revoked. This has been really hard to do but was decided in discussion with the dementia community team to keep them and others safe.

Trouble is that mum still wants to drive and doesn't acknowledge her diagnosis. I get phone calls from them most days asking me to send the keys back or return the car (it's at my house for now). Mum says she has been told by the doctor that she's fine to drive and doesn't have dementia.

Has anyone had similar and has any suggestions? Would a doctor write a letter in this situation to say she shouldn't be driving. The dvla letter revoking her licence doesn't have any impact as she says the doctor knows better.

I'm so sorry that both of your parents have dementia, that must be incredibly difficult and stressful for you.

I don't know exactly what stage your mother's dementia is at, but I note that she has regular carers, her driving licence has been revoked and it seems she lacks insight and repeatedly asks a question (about getting her car back) that she isn't able to understand the answer to.

So unless I am mistaken, her cognition / understanding is relatively poor. Have you tried repeatedly answering "oh yes mum, I forgot, next time I come over" or similar and seeing if this actually satisfies her indefinitely?

I used to work as a carer for people with dementia and I found that these type of answers were often very satisfactory to them, and that tone (cheerful, warm) was often more important than the content/sense of what is spoken. It is much less stressful to avoid disagreeing with the person who has dementia no matter what they say, because the follow up often isn't there if that makes sense?

Can you say they’re no longer insured so not allowed to drive but maybe find them a person ( or the carers ) to drive them places they want to go a couple of times a week?

been Through this with my dad sell the car
just keep repeating the reason there’s no silver bullet with this one I’m afraid

Hi, I’ve printed out the psychiatrist letter confirming diagnosis and it has has about driving in most cases. This does help a little with getting them to believe their diagnosis.
however, some people just don’t accept it and as they can’t remember what they forget, it can be very frustrating for everyone.
Ask your GP for a copy.

I agree with @Wheelbarrowbabe make an excuse eg like the car is in the garage. Sometimes it’s futile keep trying make them see something in the same way as you would.

Disconnect the battery or sell the car.

Thanks everyone. That's helpful advice about just keeping on saying oh yes and then forgetting to do it.
Their carers can give them lifts but they never accept them which is frustrating.
Sadly I think those saying sell the car are probably right but it feels a big step to take against her wishes when she still really wants to drive.

But she can't drive. She has no licence and cannot legally drive. Remind yourself that it wasn't your decision and it isn't your fault. The DVLA have assumed responsibility for that and it is out of your hands.

I would really say the takeaway for dementia (beyond a certain point where perception and memory are affected) is that the person is living in a different world, a dream world that is constructed around what is familiar to them. You just have to keep the dream as calm and pleasant and familiar as you can. Don't disagree or create conflict based on your reality. Keep with simple ideas that make sense for that person's reality. In her reality she can and should be able to drive. However, in her reality there may also be no sense of the passage of time, so that is something you can use.

Eg you may persistently forget the keys, or alternatively the garage can be "fixing up the car" for as long as you need it to, long after it has actually been sold. You might try a few different explanations before landing on the one which is most comfortable for your mother.

People with dementia are usually/often aware that things don't make sense any longer and that awareness can be frightening and upsetting. It is comforting and reassuring to have a concrete explanation that can be understood in the context of previous experiences (eg "the car is having its MOT" as opposed to not knowing why she cannot drive and it possibly feeling like she is being unfairly treated or even deceived - as she simply cannot understand the real reason because never before in her life has she had dementia, that is not part of the context of her life).

People with dementia will often assist you to make sense of their reality, as they confabulate (fill in the gaps) based on their understanding/context and you can do that with them. So if you're not sure exactly what to say and you're worried your mother might be aware you're lying you could sort of invite her to fill in the gaps "oh mum, didn't you send the car for it's MOT?" sort of thing and see if she picks that up or rejects it. Speak to her as you would have done your whole life but within her dream, with her, if that makes sense?

You could try telling her that the car needs to new part which has to be shipped from Outer Mongolia and that going to take weeks and weeks and weeks.

Or you could try telling her that it's so expensive to run a car with all the costs involved and it's much cheaper to get a taxi and sell the car.

Wheelbarrowbabe such lovely warm, helpful and comforting posts. 😍

I was chatting to a dementia specialist recently who talked about 'love lies' - providing an answer but skipping the whole truth. So when your mum asks to drive, as a PP has said, explain that driving and petrol is very expensive and a taxi would be better. All of that is true in this scenario. Or say 'Carer will pop you down to the shops now...grab your coat'.

Also I was told that it's helpful to understand what is really being asked. So if your mum is consistently asking for the car, in some way she's maybe asking for her independence and some security back. What can you say that will address that issue without reminding her that some of her independence has been taken away?

I'm sorry that both your parents are dealing with this. That is a lot to handle.

We sympathized and said it was because they were over 80 and went through a list of people that no longer had their licences cos of ‘age’ I sometimes said you could always fo the test again if you like. Our LO sometimes said no I won’t bother or yes maybe they’d do the test then immediately forget. It’s more or less ok now after a few months , LO still occasionally mentions it and I just go back to ‘ I know it’s a pain but you’d have to pass the test ‘ We do make sure they go out alot though( accompanied) because that’s what they loved doing. Sorry too that it’s both your parents, that must be alot to deal with.

Thanks everyone for the really lovely replies

Hi I saw this and couldn't resist replying. I hope you don't mind. My husband was recently hit by an elderly woman in his vehicle and he was almost killed. Recovery has taken 6 months and he will have pain for the rest of his life, in certain areas. Weeks of ICU. Children thought their dad would die. I cannot tell you how stressful and how far reaching the impact for me and my family is. I cannot encapsulate the trauma in language. Police have said she is entirely responsible and we can take her to court for prosecution. Possible custodial sentence. Maybe she's done it before - we wouldn't know - or maybe that's just what happens for a consequence for a serious accident first time. From the experiences I've had, if it were me I would think worst case scenario. She could end up in prison if she causes a serious road traffic collision. Do what you can do to remove the car from her. Even talk to the police for advice - I know they would rather talk preventative than punitive to elderly people.

I am not without sympathy but an old woman had changed the life of my family because she did not see a vehicle on the road that she should have. She was too selfish to think of an alternative mode of transport and was rushing. Yes it could happen to any of us, but you aren't as 'quick' or 'on the ball' if you have dementia and the risks are high if she kills, or nearly kills, someone.

I realise I have missed the point of dementia and the love lies are a great suggestion. My post is simply my lived experience.

Thanks for posting @Askingforadvice78 and I'm so sorry to hear of your family's experience. A very sad reminder of the possible consequences.
This is the main worry for my brothers and me, mum as her previous self would have been horrified at the prospect of putting anyone else at risk (and ironically had something of a battle with her own mother when it was time for her to stop driving), but sadly has lost this insight through dementia and can only consider her own need for a car.

The person that our LO really is ( or was before dementia) would be horrified at lots of things .Such a shitty illness. Taking the car away is obviously , from what you say, what your mum would want you to do if she could tell you . I know our LO would have absolutely told us to stop them driving . You don’t have to sell the car if it doesn’t feel right yet , just hide it til you’re ready.

I had to take mum's keys and car away. In fact she signed it over to me then spent the next 2 years sporadically leaving voicemails telling me I'd stolen her car and she was calling the police. Her lack of comprehension of the situation is absolute evidence supporting the case for not being allowed to drive.
In mum's case it wasn't necessarily that her driving was dangerous, more that her capacity to deal with unexpected events was diminished and the slightest change would result in panic attack.

Anyway we've moved on. She has recently deteriorated and gone into care yet still maintains she is visiting there and her car is in the car park. This is 2 years on from her not driving.
It is absolutely in the best interests of your parents and other road users and pedestrians that your mum doesn't drive. You know it's the right thing and distraction/change of subject is the best you can do when she raises it. The diagnosis prevents your mum from being able to process and think critically about the situation so you just have to keep doing her right thing. Seeing me driving the car used to really trigger mum despite her giving it to me, so I've just changed it. I'd suggest you sell it if you think it'll upset her if she sees it.

It's really the only way. I had to do it to my Dad earlier this year & he still hates it but he was becoming a danger on the roads.

If I can put my feminist hat aside for a moment, is there a MAN in the family who could deal with this? I totally failed to persuade my mother that she really wasn't safe to drive. Then sis and her mild-mannered husband came to visit from the other side of the world and sis tried and failed too. Bro-in-law went out in the car with her, offered to take over the wheel on the way back, drove to the local second-hand car dealership and at his suggestion she sold the car (he had ensured that all the docs were in the glove box). Sis then persuaded her to return her licence to the DVLA and made sure the GP was aware of it. Ma never mentioned it - it was as though she'd never had a car. A Man Had Spoken!