Power of Attorney- advice please

[Penfold007]

I hope I picked the right topic for this thread. Finally after at least two years of asking/begging for help the doctors have now admitted that DM has dementia (and has had for sometime)

DM has a POA so DSis and I can manage her affairs etc. Does anybody know how we invoke the POA? I can't find any guidance anywhere. Thank you.

I am sorry to hear about your DM. Is the Lasting Power of Attorney already registered? It is just a case of showing the registered document to banks etc.
www.which.co.uk/elderly-care/financing-care/managing-your-relatives-financial-affairs/354738-using-a-lasting-power-of-attorney
If it hasn't been registered you will need to contact the Court of Protection. Citizens Advice or Age UK ought to be able to give you advice if you are struggling to find answers in the online resources.

Just to warn you that not all bank staff are 100% au fait with LPAs. It can sometimes take a few visits to get things set up properly (or maybe it didn't help that we wanted to shift bank branches at the same time as getting DM's set up). I imagine this is improving now more people have them for their ageing parents, but I know friends who despaired.

Yes it's registered. Thanks for the link I'll do some reasearch. Think I will make an appointment at her bank as well.

What sort of things do you want to do.

Penfold - do you have a number of certified copies as it will probably be helpful to have these. You can probably get "proper" certified copies from the Office of the Public Guardian.

I had PoA for 3 relatives and I hope you will find this helpful.

Never send originals anywhere. People are notorious for losing your valuable documents.

Try to consolidate her money so that you are not dealing with lots of financial institutions. Some Banks and Building Soicieties are dreadfully inept, so you will need a lot of patience. You may not be able to close accounts, but you can transfer a substantial slice of the bAlance into one or two accounts. It is better to make an appointment and ensure that the person you are meeting knows how to deal with the POA. Allow up to 45 minutes for each interview.

Speak to utility companies and insurance companies that she deals with , usually they are more than happy with photocopies, I find them much more on the ball than banks.

Get her mail redirected to you so that you can deal with everything. This was invaluable to me as someone was trying to be naughty with my mum’s money. It also keeps you on top of appointments.

Keep a photocopy with you when you are dealing with things for her. If making phone calls on her behalf always mention the PoA at the start of the conversation. I am sure there is more, I can’t think of them at the moment but please ask if you have any questions.

Thanks for all the tips. I had an appointment with DM's bank manager today. She was really helpful, took a copy of the POA in front of me and gave me back the original. Gave me lots advice, the bank will issue me with debit cards etc.
Utility companies, insurance etc have all been very obliging.
Good tip regarding re-directing mail, I will get that done. All I need now is some sort of book keeping journal so I can keep nice clear records.

Maybe a spreadsheet?

I had an A-Z ledger for all paperwork and receipts. With three of them to care for it would have been a nightmare otherwise. An account book is an excellent idea.

Can I ask, as my mum’s POA has just come through (and for various reasons I have lost faith in the solicitor), is the POA the actual application document with some kind of court approval,on it? This is what the solicitor has sent me but I was expecting a ‘certificate’.

Thanks.

Has it got a indentation on the bottom in holes. Reads something like VALIDATED OPG ?

If you are redirecting mail the Post Office has a special application form for someone doing it on behalf of someone else. You will also need to produce your POA

It’s a certified copy but he’s, the validated holes thing are there!

The only place I had a problem with was the tax office, I went in so they could see it but they still wanted to send it off. I wasn't going to risk it, so that still hasn't been changed over

*sorry about your mum btw.

The OPG now only provide you with one "original" copy with the VALIDATED pinhole stamp as described. They do not provide you with certified copies - I got a couple from a local solicitor at a fairly minimal cost, but they have to sign every sheet so I think it must be a bit of a loss leader for them. Alternatively if you need one for the DWP (pensions etc.) the JobCentre will do one for you but this is not a general service.

I would never send the original anywhere - have only used it when I can take it somewhere personally (e.g. to the bank), wait while they copy it and have it handed straight back.

ohreallyohreallyoh you don't get a separate certificate - the POA is the document but it must be registered. I would advise everyone applying to do this at the same time as you apply for the POA so that when the time comes that you need to implement it you are all ready to go. Sorting out someone's affairs isn't simple (my experiences date from a few years ago) and you need to make life as easy as possible for yourself at a stressful time.

Vitalogy still haven't plucked up the strength to deal with the tax office yet!

@ohreallyohreallyoh sorry your reply was not very clear,
On the first page there should be a stamp from the Office of the Public Guardian and each page of your original forms should be impregnated with the holes. There should also have been a letter from the OPG confirming it is registered.

I agree with those who say don’t send the originals anywhere. People are notorious for losing stuff. The tax office don’t even open their mail for months, they are the last people I would send it too. Most people that need sight of the original are happy to p/copy it for you and certify in the branch that they have seen the original.

Having just been through this I've found that the banks vary enormously in their approach - Lloyds went through their registration process with me, filled in the forms and that was it - instantly on the system. Natwest made me fill in the form while they copied the POA document and then set it all off to another department and it will take up to 2 weeks to be on their system.
Post office redirection was remarkably simple - there's a special form for redirecting under POA or after death - took it in together with the original POA, and my Id and the counter staff just stamped the form to say they seen the original documents and sent the form off.
Re getting copies - the person for whom the POA is for can self certify by writing a statement and signing on each page - there's guidance in the notes. Obviously a bit long winded but quite easy to do.

My mum is still ok (but can’t write). We went to the banks as soon as it was registered-it takes a while so make an appointment. Good luck.

I sent a certified copy (by the solicitor) to HMRC by special delivery- IIRC they did return it fairly swiftly and I think it was by recorded delivery.

Correct about the self certifying but not always easy to do, it depends on the severity of the person's dementia. My mum can no longer even sign her own name, but even when she was not as ill writing out a statement on every page of a 14 page document, particularly if the person is physically disabled and/or can't understand why they are doing it, is a big ask. Also there is the ethics of whether once a person has lost capacity they should be allowed to self certify, given that they wouldn't really know what they were doing. Fine if you're doing the POA at an early stage or in advance though.

Due to this new data protection business of late, I found the local council office questioned me and needed me to re send the POA. Although they'd been no problem for the past few years with it.

Thanks all. I have been round the banks this week. Now starting on the utilities. It has been relatively painless so far.

When I sorted out the POA documents for my mother, she had been diagnosed as being in the early stages of Alzheimer’s so was mentally competent but utterly paranoid about her money being stolen.
To reassure her we went to a local solicitors and they filled everything in for us. Ok it cost a lot more but it appeased my mother. They kept the registered originals, along with Mum’s will, my will and my registered POAs in their vaults.
As part of the deal, they gave us 2 official validated copies of all documents and I also paid £50 for two extra copies POA financial for Mum.
When I needed to sort anything out for Mum, I just sent off a copy of her financial POA, photocopies of my driving licence, passport, recent bank statement and a recent utility bill.
For the bank I went in into a branch with the POA plus my real driving licence, etc (plus my birth certificate!) and I had no problems.
Basically I gave as much information to say that I am who I say I am and am the person listed on the financial POA form.
The health and welfare POA was ok - it only came into action when she needed to go into a home and her GP certified it. I had to do an interview with social services regarding the Deprivation of Liberty but they could easily see it was necessary.

As well as a bookkeeping journal I would also keep a phone ledger. Like you, I found utility companies fantastic , LAs Ok and financial institutions dire.

As your mum’s dementia progress you will be more Involved. You will be asked for the same information over and over again and, sometimes, in stressful situations it is hard to think straight.
At the front of the ledger write

Full name, date and place of birth, date of marriage details of Doctor and Hospital?
Make a full list of phone numbers. Utilities, pharmacy, Doctor, Hospitals and Financial institution.
List her medications
Have it with you every time you make a phone call for her . Then list who you spoke to, the date and time, the name of the person dealing with the issue and the outcome.

Promising are often broken or forgotten, but if you can quote dates and names when following up it speeds the process.

If not already said then a mail redirect is essential for keeping on top of any possible financial fraud, believe me it happens, and a track of appointments. It is not fail safe but it will really help. We once turned up at the ‘memory’ clinic to be told that they had phoned mum to cancel the appointment.