Dementia and Driving. Cannot believe this......any support

[skiingnomore]

My mother is 78. Has been having memory issues for more than 5 years. Resisted a dementia diagnosis 2 years ago but we finally got memory clinic to push the issue and diagnose with mixed dementia.....vascular and alzheimers at the end of november 2017.

Mum is a widow. She is difficult and nasty. She has zero insight and judgement. She confabulates and lies extensively. She refuses to make any changes to her lifestyle such as writing things down. She cannot remember from one second to the next. She doesn't take her meds. She has withdrawn completely from family life. We organise everything for her. She cannot use the telephone or make arrangements and stick to them. She is a toddler ifykwim.

She cannot deal with any paperwork. We have registered her POA. Her car was un taxed and uninsured. She ordered a new kitchen and paid a 5k deposit and then forgot for 12 months.

3 moths ago for the umpteenth time she lost her car. We got her home via taxi late one friday night . The next morning she had no idea she did not have her car. We scoured the local city and eventually found it. took it home to our house. It was 4 days before she asked us where it was. no recollection of the event. we declined to return it to her deeming
her not safe to drive.

We have had 3 months of nasty aggressive backlash despite driving her everywhere she wanted to go . Today she had an independent driving assessment via the DVLA. when asked by the OT she could not say where she was; why she was there and what for ;what diagnosis she had ; what drugs she took and what illnesses she had.

She was taken out to drive round the local housing estate at less than 30 miles per hour and at the end of it deemed to be safe to drive and given her licence. The assessor said he would not explain the decision to her because there would be no point as she wouldn't remember the discussion anyway and just because she can't find her way and she loses her car all the time that didn't mean she wasn't safe to drive.

Anyone else join me in a chorus of WTF WTF WTF ??

Shall i give her the assessors number for the next time i need to rescue her and her car because she has no idea where she is or how she got there ?

What a hellish situation .
I have just gone through the same issue with my dm, although she is not yet as bad as yours.
I refused to give her the car back after her most recent hospitalisation, and it has now been sold .
But I am the bad one ,I stopped her driving , I ruined her independence.
I stand by what I did , I refuse to have the deaths of others on my conscience.

gloriawasright we should have done the same thing and frankly may still do that next time she gets lost. its ridiculous that we are in this situation.

independence does not mean that we have to support her to drive when she is not capable of a number of basic functions that form part of that such as finding your way and dealing with insurance and tax etc.

we have a duty to keep her and others safe and she is a vulnerable individual.

for you. If she can't remember where she is, she probably wont remember to look right, when turning onto a main road, or some other simple manoeuvre.

I had the same situation too, but neighbours reported Dad, on my encouragement, via the DVLA website, as being a concern with his driving. The DVLA then wrote to Dad's GP, who confirmed that he was medically unfit to drive., and his licence was withdrawn. There was no talk of testing him - he was given the chance to appeal, which might have led to the option of a test, but as he can't read now, he didn't choose to appeal.

It might be worth looking on the website to see if that is a route you can take.

Best of luck.

Next time she loses it, dont "find it"
I agree its terrible that the assessment criteria is so narrow.

I've just had something similar, OP.
DF is awaiting results of investigations for dementia, sounds similar presentation to your DM.

Had 3 car accidents in a matter of weeks; last one he attempted to leave the incident but was prevented. I was informed by police that it's an offence (theft) to remove keys from someone unless they have been deemed unable to drive by the DVLA. So I, the police, his GP and his care coordinator all contact the DVLA with concerns and they wrote to him. He sent his licence back and promptly got straight back in his car and drove to the local shops.
However, he does still have a bit of insight and remembers his baby brother being hit and killed by a car; so he's given his car to me.

Its so, so difficult.

Dementia in itself is not a reason to limit driving

www.alzheimers.org.uk/info/20030/staying_independent/27/driving

and your DMum can still manoeuvre a car safely on the road. She is no more likely to have an accident now than she was before ;and indeed if she has passed a re-test, then she is probably a better driver than many on the road). Being unable to remember why you're going somewhere, or where you have been, no matter how distressing or inconvenient, isn't a driving safety issue, and simply won't be considered in a driving test.

She isn't forgetting or getting wrong things like which side of the road to drive on, or how to give way, or what speed for the road type.

I don't think it's in anyone's interest by letting her commit a crime (not insure the car or keep it roadworthy). But could you just let it stay lost next time she leaves it somewhere and cannot tell you where? (Or would she just go and buy another)

I think there are things that may be within the law and legal ,but it still doesn’t make it right or ok .
Legally driving might be allowed .
But morally it is deffinatly not.
I feared for my mother’s life when she was driving ,but much worse was the thought of her wiping out a family .
I wasn’t prepared to have that on my conscience as it would have been me who gave her her car back .
I know in her rational moments she can see that I was right .
But then she forgets how incapacitated she was in hospital ,and thinks I have been too harsh in taking the car .
She was at one point unable to write her own name .
How can it be right that someone that poorly can be allowed to drive ?
I know that she will never forgive me about the car ,and she has little digs at me about it every so often .
But I can live with that .
A crash where she wiped out a family I couldn’t .
It’s bloody hard though .i have become my mothers mother 😓

She could forget to put her foot on the brake and accelerate instead , reverse instead of going forwards, it doesn't bear thinking about. I wonder what will happen now they want to change the rules around hidden disabilities.

I would either open up he bonnet and remove something so the car doesn’t work, or take her keys away. Absolute madness that she should be allowed to keep her licence.

Can you speak to the police for advice?

I was hit head on on a very fast dual carriageway by a driver with dementia who had come down an exit ramp as they got confused they also had no lights on in the pitch black. Luckily I was about to go up the ramp so had already started to slow down. Lives would have been lost if they had got much further. I can't believe how lax the reassessment is.

Does she have a full licencee or is it for specified time period?
Mine was revoked, on medical grounds and I have to renew yearly.

'Does she have a full licencee or is it for specified time period?'

It's normally needs to be renewed every year. It can be for longer, up to 3 years, if it's still very early stage.

Thanks everyone for your support. A quick and quite shocking update.

At the weekend we were at my mothers house looking for 900 in cash she took from the bank last week and cannot remember ( that's another story...............believe an unscrupulous builder is on to her ) and found a letter from the DVLA dated 6th December revoking her driving licence with immediate effect...........

so at the driving assessment and all last week she was driving with no licence or insurance. She confirmed she had seen the letter but filed it away because she was too busy to deal with it !

so once again ( and now for good ) we have taken the car and her licence.

It appears the assessment which was done through the RDAC is not joined up with the DVLA and so they did not know her licence wasn't valid and whatever the assessor thinks the medical opinion overrides it. Phew.

now just to find out who is taking cash off her :-(

Good new about the driving, bad news about the money, do tell her bank.

I'd go and see the GP. You are not going to get anywhere with her. And I'd phone your local police station as well and see if they are interested in doing anything about this.

Cross post. At least she won't be driving. What a worry for you this is.

I was coming in to say this doesn't make sense as my Uncle's driving licence was automatically revoked when he got the diagnosis. I see that's the case with your mum now, definitely for the best.

You really need to get a Power of Attorney set up so you can control her finances

Oh dear - mixed news indeed.

We do have a registered power of attorney and were just waiting for an appointment with the bank to get her access shut down. My husband went in yesterday and 2 hours later without an appointment had acheived that. The staff were great. They remembered my mum coming in and were concerned at the time.

She still has no idea who she gave it to. A builder who is coming back next week in a grey van to do unspecified work who wanted 900 pounds up front. Yeh right !!!

This is so wrong. But hardly surprising. There clearly is 2 parts to this. The fact they have passed her as 'fit to drive' as in actually driving, physically. But no one took into account the otter aspect of being 'fit to drive'. Which is staggering.

I have had lots of dealing of dealing with the DVLA medical section. Many times over many years. Most of it awful. They seriously whip licences away from diabetics, very quickly. Later finding out they aren't applying new EU legislation correctly. And have to return the licences.
I have helped other people deal with the DVLA.

So this polar opposite really gets my goat!!

I would definitely ring DVLA and talk to the medical section. Make sure you ask for them specifically.

And speak to GP.

Attack it from both sides.

Sorry. Missed update. Good.
But sorry about the missing money! You are having a right time if it, with her, aren't you? Presumably thus isn't going to get better, either. What a shame.

We took the car keys from MIL and told her we were putting them away - ‘on this high shelf in the red tin ‘

She can’t remember that conversation No access to keys. No ones taken/ stolen her property and she can’t drive herself
Win win

Well, I've completed and have ready to send in the morning, notification to DVLA.

Feel really bad about it. I'm taking away mums last bit of independence. But I have to.

It's so hard.

I've reported my own Dad to DVla. Also told his gp that in my opinion he should not be allowed to drive. He's had a diagnosis of vascular dementia. The car hasso many dents in now - we are just lucky he's not hit anyone. Car is in the garage and I have told them to hang I to it until we get the decision from dvla. He can no longer work his oven, the microwave or washing machine. It cannot be right for him to be driving. He of course thinks he should be. We have poa for him.