Baby changing facilities that Dads can use

[MrsTittleMouse]

There's been a bit of an argument on AIBU - apparently there often aren't changing tables in areas that men can use, they are only in the Ladies.

This seems completely daft in this day and age where men are much more involved in parenting, it's a form of exclusion if they can't even change a nappy. So I put a thread up on Site Stuff requesting a MN campaign. You can find it here if you are interested :-

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/979583-Can-we-have-a-campaign-for-baby-changing-facilities-for

There are often changing facilities in unisex disabled toilets, which my dh uses

If the only facilities available are in the ladies toilets, I think dads should go in and use them. As far as I know it's not actually illegal (At least in the UK it isn't), it's not going to do anyone any harm, and I doubt many women would actually complain. If the baby needs changing, it needs changing.

DH went to the zoo the last week and queued in the ladies to use the changing table. No one batted an eye.

He went again yesterday and discovered there were facilities in the men's too. He felt a plum, but no-one minded last time!

John Lewis and M&S are very good at having a seperate baby changing room.

The M&S ones also have a loo in a cubicle in the changing room - hurrah, can change nappy and have own wee without having to up sticks half way through to go to the ladies.

If they are only in the female toilets, then a male should go in and use them. Its a failure of planning on the behalf of the company. My P has done this before, and my father used to make a deliberate point of taking me around town to change me several times in the space of an hour when I was a baby for this same reason.

Though most places do have them in unisex toilets now, or at least have a communal room.

I've only ever seen changing facilities in either a unisex area or a separate baby changing room.

My DH had exactly the same problem and was simply told either 'there's no call for them' or 'it's not often/no mans ever requested it before'. I agree it's not good enough in this day and age! After an EMCS that had complications I was often too poorly to be able to change DS alone, when this happened DH would often come into ladies with me. Nobody complained, infact quite the opposite! Good on you for starting this campaign.

M AND S , JOHN LEWIS, ASDA, AND MOTHERCARE, SAINSBURYS ALL HAVE BABY CHANGING FACILITIES JUST AT THE TOP OF MY HEAD

SirBoobAlot - I can't imagine changing DS a few times in one hour. It sometimes takes that long to change him once, he's that wriggly!

As mentioned, John Lewis and M&S as well as Boots and Mothercare have the best facilities.

Sarich. Do you have some kind of agenda here. this is the second thread you have bumped along these lines.

Very odd post to add to an old thread Sarich.

"This not safe practice in today?s environment re sexual offenders, child abuse, molestation and paedophilia."

Are you implying that sex offenders, child abuse, molestation and paedophilia are recent phenomena?

When did they start?

It may be an old thread (it was the first one I came to) but a its a very hot topic which adds another dimension to these discussions which people need to be aware of.

My agenda is to alert parents to these changes If there are no warning signs most of us would naturally assume female cleaners for female toilets and male cleaners for male toilets but they are now being used interchangably without most peoples knowledge or consent. This is hardly going to reduce sex related crimes and paedophilia is it?

Parents need to know they can no longer send their kids in to a loo or changing area alone while they carry on with their shopping etc. Little girl may be frightened by a man banging on the door as he barges in. Many children do not even close or lock the door. Would you like your 12 yr old daughter to be alone in a female toilet with a man or want your 14 yr old son to be upset by a female cleaner walking in on him at a urinal?

Why were you searching for these topics? Are you campaigning for something?

I think that you are scaremongering and to talk about paedophilia like this is just extreme.

I would not automatically assume that every man is a paedophile and I think it would be a very crappy world if parents were encouraged to think like this.

"This is hardly going to reduce sex related crimes and paedophilia is it? "

Do you know what paedophilia is? Do you think its prevalence can be increased by male toilet attendants?

Do you need a nice sit down?

Of course every man is not a peadophile.However, jobs which are easy to get, poorly supervised and give people access to the opposite sex undressed or using a toilet/urinal have obvious potential to attract people who are that way inclined- both male and female. Hence privacy/decency laws which give us the right to choose who sees and touches our body. Forcing opposite sex workers on people in single sex areas without choice, and giving them no chance to object, has clear potential to cause distress for many people and may feel like rape for some.That is why the NHS is being penalised for mixed sex accomodation, toilet & bathroom facilities. Service providers need to be converting toilets/changing rooms to single access cubicles if they want opposite workers to work in them without upsetting people. It is not acceptable to put their staff at risk of accusations as well as users and especially children and other vulnerable groups such as the elderly who are used to being treated with more dignity & respect and may be put off going out at all if they cannout comfortably use a toilet. If only it was just scaremongering. A 9 yr old girl has already been sexually assaulted in a supermarket as a result of this change in policy which allows unrestricted access by opposite sex workers without closing the toilets down.

Paedophilia is a predilection.

These people are paedophiles regardless of whether they have jobs as toilet cleaners.

Allowing predatory paedophiles access to children is what your point is- please stick to it, as underneath the scaremongering, it merits discussion.

Please stop claiming that paedophilia has increased in recent times as a result of legislation such as this. It weakens your argument to the point of ridicule.

You are right, I have not intentionally claimed that paedophilia has increased in recent times because of this- only that poor employment practices may allow paedophiles and perverts easier access to their prey (children & adults)and may mask thir perversion (under the guise of paid work) which makes it less likely for them to be caught.

In the meantime many more children may be at risk simply because their parents do not know about these changes until it is too late.

I do not just mean physical risks either, but also the dignitary harm and distress that is caused when privacy is violated and which can cause long term psychological problems and interfere with relationships etc.
These changes are infiltrating many areas eg cruise ships instruct opposite sex cleaners to enter changing rooms eg sauna, pool etc and toilets by knocking and opening the door before retreating if someone is in there.

How many people would expect or want a male worker opening a door & gawping at them or perhaps their 15 yr old daughter in a female changing room? When I complained they offered me a refund but said they did not intend to change their practice!

People need to know that under antidiscrimination law there is nothing to stop employers from using same sex workers in situations where people are undressed or using a toilet.

However, if they use opposite sex workers there should be a robust policy in place to prevent users from being compromised (and cleaners) eg Display warning signs giving times an opposite sex cleaner will be checking/cleaning, or by asking a same sex worker/user to check if anyone is already in there.
Employers are only getting away with poor practices (like permanent signs which do not allow users any choice if they are uncomfortable to use a toilet with an opposite sex worker there eg motorway service stations) and instructing cleaners to just walk in if people do not object and start exercising their rights to ask the cleaner/worker to leave, or check when/how they will access before you use the toilet/changing room. Otherwise it is being assumed that we have consented the minute we use the facility.
Many women (& men) say cleaners refuse to leave when asked because they work there! This is harassment and needs to be stopped.

The only way to stop unsafe practice which causes distress and puts us all & our children at risk is for people to know it is not discrimination to object & complain!

This argument, as far as I can see, has nothing to do with baby changing facilities. If it did then think of it like this; If there is nowhere where a daddy can change his own child's nappy then what is he expected to do? Use the only facilities provided (which are often in the ladies) or change the baby on the floor in an open public area? If you are suggesting the latter than by your own argument this is increasing the risk of a paedophile seeing a naked child and possibly enjoying it!! Ludicrous.

As far as I'm concerned if there are no other facilities then the daddies have EVERY right to use the facilities in a ladies toilet if they are the only ones provided. I have no problem at all with a man being in a ladies toilet changing his baby/childs nappy, after all I think they just want to get in and out as quickly as possible. It's not going to be so enjoyable that they wish to linger. Oh and I don't know if I've lived a sheltered life but I've never seen anything in a ladies that I would have an issue with my DH seeing, after all most women don't pull their knickers down BEFORE they go into a cubicle, nor do they come out of a cubicle with their fanjos on display!!!! Also, I've never seen a 12 year old girl peeing with the door open, only ever young children who cannot/are scared of operating a lock. As for your argument about a woman walking in on a 14 year old boy at a urinal WTF has that got to do with daddies using baby changing facilities?

I think you need to start your own thread re opposite sex cleaners being in toilets/changing areas. This was completely the wrong place for what was probably a valid point if posted in the correct place!

Why not just put more changing units in the men's toilets?