I learned something today...

[Daddster]

I told 3yo DD1 she had to go to the loo before we left to go out. She refused, so I asked her again and again, then she shouted and me and threw herself down howling, so I just picked her up (screaming and howling) and plonked her on the toilet.

Cue 30 mins of stroppy shouting and resentfulness from DD1, thus making the start to everyone's Sunday trip out an utter misery.

DW says I'm an idiot. I should have either (a) just waited a short while and she would have decided to go of her own accord, (b) used a bribe, or (c) tried to make a game out of it (e.g. "can you show me how clever you are by going to the toilet all by yourself?").

Personally, I think I'm just permanently behind the curve. DW spends so much time with them she gets to make mistakes and learn from them, but by the time I learn, the DKs have moved on to a different stage of development. It just ain't fair.

Dd does this, she's 4.
I say airily, ok, that's fine but we're not going anywhere then and I wander off. I also say it's fine if she doesn't want to go but she should sit on the loo and just check.
so non negotiable on my part but letting her back down calmly if she chooses to. I do make sure it's something I don't have to be on time for though.

Your dw is right really. Brute force NEVER works with my stroppy girl, just makes matters worse.

Lol, I feel like that and I am the one at home with them all day every day. Don't be too hard on yourself please. Sometimes I am the perfect parent remembering to make a game of things and remember how young the children are and how to see things from their perspective. Other days I have a headache/ am tired / in a rush and don't have time to humour them. They are always our bad days .

Toileting is a difficult one - like eating and sleeping, you can't force a child to pee or poo, so you have to find other methods. With my DS1 (after MUCH trial and error) I give him a countdown if I can see that he needs to go: 'DS1, I'd like you to do a poo for me this afternoon.' 'DS1, I'd like you to go to the toilet in about ten minutes.' 'DS1, would you go and sit on the toilet for me now?' It usually works. If he just refuses, I back down and change the subject, and he usually ends up going of his own accord eventually.

It's a pain - I do sympathise. And I know what you mean about the out-of-the-home parent being behind the curve - it must be difficult. To give you the alternative point of view - I'd really love my DP (I'm a SAHM) to say: 'I'm having trouble getting DS1 to go to the toilet. You seem to handle this quite well - what's your method?' This will have the added benefit of making your wife want to snog you.

Don't beat yourself up Dad as Vanilla said we all have our days ...and everyone deals with situations differently...my DH is different to me in parenting style and I leave him to it ...my DDs have to learn Daddy's way...unless it's something that I think is going too far...then I would speak to him about it another time...although I admit sometimes I just give him the 'Are you MAD?' look and he knows I don't agree with his methods..lol

I'm with policy - if my dh asked me how to deal with an issue and in doing so praised my parenting he'd be getting more than a snog. Actually, he did call me the other day after he'd dashed off mid Easter egg hunt to get his train to take clients out to say that he appreciated how good I was with the kids - put me in such a good mood and he reaped the benefits of that later.

YOu have to remember as well that hands on parenting is your DW's job. You wouldn't expect her to be ableto go into your office and cover for you, so don't expect yourself to be able to be as good at the stuff like discipling as her. As you said, she gets practice.

If she called you an idiot in a horrid way, or if you weren't being defensive and stressed and argumentative (which would all have been valid emotions, but somewhat deserving of mild name calling) then she is out of order, and you should explain to her that you are trying and don't appreciate being told off for not getting it right.

I sympathise.
It's hard work keeping up with the ever-evolving negotiation ploys
required to get them to do the basics.

Snide remarks from SAH partner are not much help
but at least she gave you some useful pointers.

I'm guilty of doing this sometimes - I forget what dp's been around for and what he hasn't.

If it's any consolation, I do consider it as my fault that I have neglected to tell him that ds doesn't wear nappies at all during the day any more, or that dd2 can now write her name without help or even that I have moved things around in the kitchen and the plates are now in the wall cupboard.

Daddster - the fact that you actually knew to take a 3yo to the bathroom before leaving deserves at least a gold star in my book...

Perhaps method needs improvement, but at least with parenting there are no PMOs ...

you make a really interesting point about your DW being around them more and being able to learn from her mistakes etc.

I hadn't considered this. I find the weekends hard because my DH sort of has a tendancy to unravel our kids routines a bit - and I sort of let him, within reason so long as its not detrimental to them. Recently its been problematic - their gettingb over tired / not eating properly so I've talked about how important routines are and why I follow them and of course its not occured to me that as he doesn't see them every day beyond the mornings, he has no idea what effects them.

sorry this has turned into a minor rant, but what you say is very helpful. thank you.

Daddster: Gahh! I know what you mean. My DW works every third Sunday leaving me as Daddy daycare. Ususally all goes swimmingly except for one major blowout that I subsequently realise/get told I could have easily avoided.

I very often feel like a total arse but I reassure myself with the knowledge that I love the little buggers and I AM doing the best I can.

PS: top tip for that situation next time: DD1 is the same age. I find that either running the tap or going myself for the noisiest, foamiest wee I can manage both work a treat.

Manly pat on the shoulder. We've all been there. If it's any consolation, if you'd tried option a, b or c and failed there would have certainly been an option d that you should have known about instead.

Good tip from Barcode, although I tried his latter suggestion the other day and ended up weeing on DS's head. He was intrigued and persistent (mental note to narrow stance next time).

pmsl 'ended up weeing on DS's head'!! Our DS tried to 'catch' daddy's wee the other day during a demonstration...cue awkward twisting and pee on the bath mat

LOL at DaDaDa. You know he'll be bringing that up in therapy. Therapy that you'll be paying for.

It's DW's fault. In the comfort of my own home I tend towards a more comfortable means of relieving myself (see 'Married To a Sitting Pisser' thread Mumsnet passim) and she's convinced I'm going to pass on my deviant tendencies; therefore I have to stage uber-manly weeing demonstrations so he's not emotionally scarred later in life.

I would have thought his father peeing on his head would be the greater pyschological evil, but hey ho...

um....
daddster...
You used a "DADS APPROACH"

Which is generally characterised by trying to IMPOSE YOUR WILL on children.

This is notoriously unsuccessful with little daughters.
The trick, as your dw highlighted, is to try and get dc's to think something is THEIR idea.

Trust us, it works better. Less tears (hers and yours)

However, all is not lost, you very wisely sought counsel...

I'll stop being a smartass now.
My dh tries is always trying to do things the hard way, he just won't listen...

sigh

DaDaDa weed on his son's head ON PURPOSE to make a point to his DW.

I shall have to insist that this goes into the Talk Round-up.

This is an eternal problem. Wee, what to wear, what to eat etc. Just stay cool. She's a female. Don't even try to push the issue.

DaDaDa: Ah! the old weeing on the head trick. They only do it once don't they?

Why is it, though, that DDs who willfully ignore you most of the time cannot leave you in peace to piss? I too, in idle moments, pee sitting down. This is only when I can't be bothered leaving one hand free for pushing away an insistent 3 yo girl who is wrinkling up her nose, snorting like a rhino and declaring at the top of her voice, "smells good Daddy."

I assure you, it does NOT smell good.

This is the same girl who, yesterday on the bus, apropos of nothing, asked, "we don't poo on people's heads do we Daddy?"

I certainly don't but I can't vouch for what her mother does when they're out and about.

PS: purpleduck: no amount of emoticons disguises a patronising pat on the head. Mostly we're trying our best here. Give us a break OK?