Representing yourself in court for custody - 'Litigants in Person'

[AnonymousDaddy]

Hello,

Following my ex wife withdrawing from mediation I have now been issued with a signed C100. I really didn't want to have to go to court for a number of reasons but I guess these things can't be helped.

I have had to take a wage cut and reduced hours so I can pick my kids up and drop them off to school 50% of the week, which means my income is not at it's best right now. I have done some research and it seems it's quite common for someone to represent themselves when it comes to court but on other websites it makes it seem quite scary and obviously.

So my question is, has anyone had any experience and/or has advice when it comes to reperesenting yourself in court.

(for the record I have begged for it to not go down this route but have been told it is the only way. My ex is represented with free legal aid and my earnings are just above the threshold for funding - I am NOT trying to file for full custody, I am only looking for 50%, however, my ex only wants me to have them 1 day during the week and every other weekend)

[Isitsixoclockalready]

It's not something that I have experienced; however it would appear that it is common for people to do so. Hopefully there will be people who can offer their experience but otherwise there will be plenty of content online. The key I imagine is preparation preparation preparation.

[Casper10]

Hi mate.

There's a site for Dad's called dadswithkids

It's really supportive and will be able to guide you.

To answer the question you can do it without a solicitor or barrister. It depends really how messy it gets and the allegations that get made.

[MuyBien]

Hi, how are you getting on?

It's a very slow process but I did it when COVID hit. I felt very nervous representing myself in court but everything was casual and quite friendly.

[AnonymousDaddy]

Thank you for that, I can't express how much better that makes me feel. I've read up alot and it all sounds quite scary, but the occasional thread says it as you did.

Do you mind if I ask what it was you were going to court for? I'm merely looking to have my kids 50% of the time, I've heard the courts are in favour of both parents being involved, I just wondered if you were looking for something similar?

Thanks again

[MuyBien]

@AnonymousDaddy

Thank you for that, I can't express how much better that makes me feel. I've read up alot and it all sounds quite scary, but the occasional thread says it as you did.

Do you mind if I ask what it was you were going to court for? I'm merely looking to have my kids 50% of the time, I've heard the courts are in favour of both parents being involved, I just wondered if you were looking for something similar?

Thanks again

Hi, I went to court to fight for visitation.

I chose the 1 day during the week and every other weekend deal. I hadn't seen him since he was 3 months old, so I felt it was best to take things slow after not seeing him for 7 months.


I think it's great that you want to spend as much time with your kids as you can get and I would of thought your ex would feel the same.

[Naughtygg]

Hi, firstly legal aid isn't available for child arrangement orders anymore, only in cases where there has been domestic abuse. Are you sure your ex has legal aid?

It's not a problem to represent yourself. Just tell the court what you want, 50-50 access and tell them why you believe that that arrangement is best for the child.

As long is there is no safeguarding issues I think the courts are fair and reasonable.

Look legal queen on tik tok or discord. She offers free advice on a q&a 3 times a week.

[Louise0701]

Are you in England? Legal aid isn’t available anymore unless the person is a victim of domestic abuse. Is this the case for you ex?

Many people do self represent. As a pp said; go in, be clear on what you want and explain why you believe it’s best for the children.

[SD1978]

As others have said. Clear and concise. How old are the children? Do you live near your ex so that their school day/ life isn't disrupted by 50/50. Is the 50/50 your proposing fair to all of you- you both get weekend with the kids? Do they want a 50/50 arrangement. Are there additional needs which may not be best suited to 50/50 and that one more 'permanent' base could be successfully argued if they are neurodiverse? Most important to remember is that the court want what is in the best interest of the child, not the adults. Is she is arguing that is too much time away from a primary residence, you need to be clear as to why it's not. What is the current arrangement and how long has that being going on? As that also will have bearing.

[leilall]

My Dad actually represented himself in court. (This was over 17 years ago) he wanted custody of me and my siblings. Which he never got. (I'm glad) but yes you can do it. From what I can remember cafcass got involved and asked us (children at the time) what we wanted. We all wanted to remain with my mother. But it went on for 3+ years in and out of court.

Looking back now my Dad said it drained him emotionally and physically. They attempted to bill him for the court costs. Which he never paid however he did declare bankruptcy. So not sure what happened with that.

Best of luck..

[AnonymousDaddy]

All of your responses have been very helpful, thank you all.


First of all, I would like to apologise as I was very much wrong in regards to my ex getting legal aid, it appears this is being funded by her mother which makes sense.

• The little ones are 2 and coming up 5.

• I live 15 minutes away and the school is on my commute to work.

• I have 50/50 overnight care and the current situation is approx. 35/65 day to day care (my ex has more but will not let me pickup my youngest when he finishes nursary).

• I have reduced my working hours by almost 25% to be able to do school pickups and drop offs.

• I have always got them school/day ready on my mornings and following mediation, I am now allowed to drop them and pick them up. (the youngest I am not allowed to pickup until 3pm which I assume is for CSA day to day care amount purposes).

• I do homework with the eldest and have recently managed to eradicate the youngests dummy and we are currently working on getting out of nappies.

• I've attended every school event I've been allowed to or made aware of and attended every parents evening.

• I have paid £150 a month every month since we split and recently contacted CSA myself to do it officially.

• I have never claimed a penny for support.

These little ones are my life and I strongly believe that they need me. I have been heavily involved in every part of their life as they have grown up and have tried my absolute best to prevent the seperation from affecting them. I do not bad mouth their Mum and I openly talk to them about Mummy and her boyfriend as I don't want them to ever think they can't talk to me about it. They are relaxed with me, they know it has home and they know when they are with me, they will be staying with me and not someone else for the night.

My ex wants to reduce my contact to a 1 night a week and every other weekend.

I have not been given a true reason as to why that's best other than that she is the mother and that she can best prepare them for the day, yet I have been doing this for months. I again believe this is for CSA purposes but cannot say for certain.

Is that a strong enough argument just because she is the Mum she is able to better get them ready for the day?

[Naughtygg]

If you're already parenting 50/50 and it's working for the children and they're settled and happy in that routine then the court won't reduce your contact time. I think generally speaking, where ever possible 50/50 is the best for children.

And no, mum thinking she's better at getting the children ready isn't relevant.

[TomPinch]

I'm not in the UK, but I have been in a family court courtroom plenty of times. In my experience there are some parents who are good at negotiating the court process and who are good at getting their points across at hearing. And then there are some who really aren't. That latter group is larger.

The point of a lawyer is to persuade the court why you should win, on the basis of the applicable law. They should know what the court will consider relevant and what it won't, and should know what you should say, and what you should shut up about. Ask yourself, would you prefer to pay a lawyer and get what you want, or do and get neither, if that's the choice?

[AnonymousDaddy]

I completely get what you are saying @TomPinch. My concern is, as with everything, when things do not go in my ex's favour, she tends to try again over and over. This has been the case with many things and if I were to win in court the first time, I would no doubt be finding myself there again and again. Paying a solicitor is something I simply cannot financially afford if it was to happen over and over again, so my theory was to represent myself and keep doing that.

From how I see it, as I have done no wrong, I have always been there for my kids and the current care arrangement is 50/50 then I cannot see why this would be reduced. If I had at any point put my children in harms way, or shown some form of neglect or even argued with their mum in front of them then I would be more concerned, but the only thing I believe I would be fighting against is my ex being their mother and her and her solicitor both seem to believe that that's enough for her to have majority of custody. From some of the comments on here and what I have read online, it seems that the court favors 50/50 parenting where possible, so I am hopeful that this is the case when I am there.

Thank you for your comments and thoughts, I will certainly take note. I believe I know when to keep my mouth closed and when to open it, but it's certainly something I am going to look into and focus on too.

[IAAP]

50/50 is not merely what you are asking for. You are asking for half. That is the starting point in a situation where both parents are fully involved. No reason you can’t do a week on and a week off in this case.
Do not accuse her of wanting it for money - the same argument can be used for you - you want to pay less. £150 a month for two children. Should be 20% of your income.

this is about your relationship with your children. You can and are willing to have them 50/50 and are fully engaged to co parent.
what is her reason for not continuing with mediation? She would have to have a good one.
are there any allegations? History of dv etc?

take the emotion out

you want what is in the best interest of the child / both parents fully involved and doing equal share

[TomPinch]

I see the predicament you're in, and the truth is that there are no easy answers. Where I live the courts are keen to keep both parents involved, somewhat more than the UK. So I was honestly surprised when someone I know got permission to take her children to another country, despite the father's objection. But she was represented, he chose to represent himself and (according to her at least) condemned himself out of his own mouth at the hearing. Now he cannot parent his children in any meaningful way. His role is over.

[AnonymousDaddy]

Thank you @Naughtygg that's very good to hear. Yes, 50/50 at the moment and I am only looking to increase my day to day care so that is also 50/50 but I feel she will fight this for the sake of CSA.

[AnonymousDaddy]

@IAAP Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't 50/50 the same as half or are they considered different things in court? That is a genuine question.

I am struggling to understand why there would be any other reason as to why I wouldn't be allowed access to the children for day to day care aswell unless it is for the money, that is why I refer back to that each time. Every time change is requested to their routine, it seems to put my ex just over the 50% care bracket. I have researched and looked into other benefits of that. I appreciate what you are saying in regards to me also looking as though it's all about the money, and I have thought about this alot, but the money for me is more from a practical cost of living aspect. I havn't opted or tried to pay her less, I have been paying the figure my ex requested when we seperated, I contacted CSA myself and made the claim which resulted in her being paid more, I did this so that it was done the correct way and so that no false claims could be made against me.

I am willing to co parent and have changed my life greatly to allow this. She withdrew from Mediation because she felt that they treated her unfairly as they advised that the courts would favour me being part of the chilrens lives as much as her. Then shortly after, her solicitor got in touch with the same proposal which was made at mediation which I again denied for obvious reasons.

There is no DV from me to her and no allegations made towards either of us.

I do want whats best for the children and your comment, although appreciated, is exactly what concerns me. I do not want to come across in court as though it is about the money or not about the children. I wan't to be able to bring my kids up and support them as much as I can and as I've always said, I wan't their mother to be able to too. I cannot see any reason as to why this is an unreasonable thing to ask. The children love being with me, spending time with me, learning with me and developing with me, as they do with their Mum too. We have a morning routine as well as an after school routine which both kids are fully aware of and look forward to.

So my question would now be, what reasons would a judge have to deny me half of the care of the children based on the above?

[AnonymousDaddy]

@TomPinch Oh wow. Ok, thank you for that message. That will certainly make me look at it from a different point of view.

[IAAP]

The point of the merely 50/50 is the merely - why should you get more?

for example I’m only asking for 50:50 is better wording I want to be an equal co parent.

one week on and one week off

I will meet all my child’s needs eg drop off to school pick up, pay 50/50 of all clubs etc

for the younger one I will either look after my child on the weeks I have them or cover all nursery costs on my weeks

if you defending in person you ex wife could well use the argument

1. he will be working on his week with the younger one so mum can look after him at home - home being cheaper and the ‘norm’ than a nursery
2. with mums week is he offering to cover the costs all wrap around care - 50% of holidays or is he intending to take time off work?

what you can’t ask is for her to cover 100% of all costs wrap around care holiday

if you want 50/50 the children must not be going into childcare they must be with you or school
if you want 50/50 you must pay all of their costs when they are with you- can you afford and do this? And organise it?

you need to be clearer

a solicitor will take your arguments apart in seconds.

mine would start with this and then for finances
£150 a month Is £75 a month per child which is less than £20 a week per child.

hence my question are you currently paying the right CMS ?


is he offering to cover the childcare on weeks he has younger one or is he wanting to use mum as childcare and then pick the child up? That’s not reasonable

you need to be clear

my ex expected me to cover 100% of nursery costs and have the child 50% that’s not reasonable in any court.

are you paying 50% of uniform etc for equal care

you need to be clear about what you can do, what you can afford and what you are offering

a good solicitor will be questioning you on meeting the needs of the children in your care.

child benefit Is normally only given to the primary parent as are the free nursery sessions - are you wanting this split

finances according to the court are usually totally separate but you need to be clear on what you can afford and what you want

[RandomMess]

CMS is based on overnights.

If you have 50:50 shared care you can each claim child benefit for one child each (obviously more if you have more than 2 DC)

Even if she justified you having less than 50:50 term time you could request additional overnights in the school holidays to level it up.

EOW could be Friday night to Monday morning so with one week day too that's already 5 out of 14.

Your ex should have to justify why 50:50 is detrimental whilst you justify why it's beneficial.

[AnonymousDaddy]

Both of those messages are very informative, thank you so much.

I wasn't paying the correct CMS at £150, that was the requested amount from my ex, I have since contacted them myself and its now £44 a week as the nights are equal but day to day care isn't.

OK, I understand and all of it makes sense.

Am I right in believing it works both ways? For example, the kids spend 50% of the time they are with their Mum with the Nan instead, however, when I touched on my brother dropping them off one time, I was advised by her solicitor that my ex states that I'm not allowed to use a third party? I struggle to understand whether what the solicitor is telling me is legally what I can and can't do or just passing on messages from my ex if that makes sense?

Again, thank you all for your advice!

[RandomMess]

If it's her solicitor and not the court that is just her wishes.

You could write back to her solicitor and state as you allow without objection her family to do childcare and have to the DC for solo visits she needs to understand that you are permitted the same courtesy. That the DC have strong family bonds with her paternal extended is equally valid and important.

[IAAP]

@AnonymousDaddy

Both of those messages are very informative, thank you so much.

I wasn't paying the correct CMS at £150, that was the requested amount from my ex, I have since contacted them myself and its now £44 a week as the nights are equal but day to day care isn't.

OK, I understand and all of it makes sense.

Am I right in believing it works both ways? For example, the kids spend 50% of the time they are with their Mum with the Nan instead, however, when I touched on my brother dropping them off one time, I was advised by her solicitor that my ex states that I'm not allowed to use a third party? I struggle to understand whether what the solicitor is telling me is legally what I can and can't do or just passing on messages from my ex if that makes sense?

Again, thank you all for your advice!

Provided her mother and your brother have no convictions, alcohol, smoking, driving or anything else that the court might take into consideration mothers care is that - what the mother decides and same for you.

if it a lift home that should be fine - did he have car seats in his car etc

[AnonymousDaddy]

OK, that's what I thought.

I would have swapped the car seats beforehand but I was told I was not allowed to use any form of third party which included my brother. I assumed this was wrong, but to prevent any hostility I accepted at the time.

It seems very one sided. I.e. I am unable to attend a school event that's on her day, but she will turn up at the ones that fall on my day without warning. Or she can use many different friends and family for support and care but I can't use anyone but myself, and if I were to use anyone else then I must ask her first, yet if I request to be asked first if she can't have the kids, I am not informed and just have to collect the kids from where they are at the time agreed.

It almost feels as though I am being setup to fail. I appreciate I have to leave emotions out if it, but it's very difficult to do that sometimes.

[TomPinch]

Where I live what you must, can or mustn't do will be set out in a court order. If one is in place you have to obey it, appeal it, or get it rescinded.

What her solicitor tells you will reflect her wishes. But it may also reflect what the law actually is - or to put it another way, what the court would say if asked.

I would add that the effective litigants-in-person I've observed understand these distinctions very well.