When do we sleep?

[fawkner]

Hi all,

My DS is 11 weeks old. The poor little man has various intolerances and fairly bad silent reflux. He's on Neocate milk and omeprazole and he's on a slow upward improvement.

It's been a very long 11 weeks, he's our first child and it's been much harder than I ever anticipated. His digestive problems have definitely put a cloud over the whole experience and I've struggled a lot with it all.

Whilst he is improving overall, his sleep remains a big issue. He does sleep but only when on someone (in arms or on chest)...
I know this is common for many babies and we've sort of done this to ourselves by not training him. But if you put him down he lasts around 10 minutes maximum before he's wriggling around and groaning.

Even during his sleep he is constantly moving around, flailing his arms and doing donkey kicks. He ultimately wakes himself up every time. The paediatrician say his movements are because he's being "constantly scratched from
The inside" due to the intolerances and only time will help.

So my wife and I are having a shift approach to sleep. She sleeps from 6pm-2am while I have him and then I take him up at 2 and I sleep while she takes care of him. It's a bit crazy but it's working for us currently.

Anyone else have similar stories? I know reflux is common, so when did you start to see sleep improvements?

We're all so tired!

Hi fawkner. I don't have any experience of reflux but it might be worth posting in the parenting thread as this page doesn't get a huge amount of traffic. I hope that things settle down soon. It is hard getting used to disrupted nights but you will find things get easier.

I was lucky none of mine suffered as babies with reflux but hopefully my posting will keep this in active for you so others who may be able to help see it

Well done for managing so far!! It's really tough, have had similar and we coped in shifts like you both are. Gradually she improved, grew bigger and slept for longer. It's just survival at the moment, be patient, things will improve.

Poor little chap! Could you afford a maternity nurse? Even one night a week would give you some respite.

My absolute sympathy. I had a reflux baby. You are doing everything right. Your set up is really gold standard. You will look for every solution but in my experience things might help, but only time heals. Sorry, I know you are in hell. My "baby" is nine and he is incredible. I can say that this is the toughest way to prepare you for parenthood and we found each stage to get easier. All the things that are meant to be hard, terrible twos, potty training etc. Well, they were a breeze.

Just keep doing what you are doing. Bloody pat each other on the back. You are parenting heroes.

In shifts like you are!

Have you got a sling to wear him in to give you your hands free?

Sorry you’re struggling but Im pleased you’re pulling as a team at this

Sleep training isn’t a thing to do to a newborn.
It’s fine once they are a but older but really damaging when they are tiny.

Put yourself in your baby’s shoes for a moment… you have no way of making anything happen in the world, you can’t propel yourself in anyway, can barely see, all you know is these two smelly blurs who make everything alright

Now imagine you don’t understand object permanence (that thing you can’t see come back) and imagine finding yourself alone… what’s going to happen if you remain alone?
You die!
So they scream like they’re being murdered 😂

It’s normal for them to want to be close to their caregivers, that’s how they stay alive!

I know you’re tired like you’ve never been before but this is temporary and it will get better

Newborn is the hardest stage IMO… they hardly even know you exist but you have to run round after the tiny dictator and ALL they do is shout at you

But soon they will be interacting with you, up and moving, trying to steal your chips

It’s gonna be ok

For various reasons I had to do it singled handed and you have to just put them down and they do get better at staying asleep.
I found it was easier to get a block of sleep at the beginning of the evening so get baby settled at 10 in there own bed. Keep them up before this. I then got 3 hours solid before the up and down of the rest of the night. Don’t put the baby to bed at 7 as they will usually sleep well and you’ll miss the sleep opportunity as it’s too early.
Warm the basket up with a hot water bottle before you put the baby in it.
It gets easier.

Are you swaddling the baby OP? That often helps a lot, and with reflux he will naturally prefer to be upright, so give plenty of winding after each feed (20mins) and try him in a slight slanted cot. Do you have a next to me type cot? they come designed fo slightly tilt one end so that gravity can help with his digestive system.

Absolutely you can’t sleep train a baby, especially a baby that’s been crying for a genuine reason (pain)

I’ve been exactly where you are and it does get better. If you’ve been on the special milk a while and he’s still not better, there are other milks the GP can prescribe. Sometimes you have to try a few before you find the right one for your baby.

Have you looked up safe cosleeping guidelines? I found with my daughter if I could get her to sleep on my chest, after about 15 minutes I could sort of roll her next to me and then cosleep with her. The lullaby trust has good cosleeping guidelines.

Good luck, it does get better!

Try the love ti dream swaddles ! Really worked for us

But tbh we did the shift thing for ages ! We came out the other side but we are going through a regression now again at 6 months 😭 it’s tough going ! Best of luck - hope it gets better soon!

Hard to say. It was about 18months before I got anything like normal sleep with dd1. Others do settle sooner but you just need to ‘let go’ of the obsession with sleep abd stop clocking up how many hours you have or haven’t had. That in itself makes it worse. It is very hard. Sounds like you’re both doing a great job sharing the load.

I have been there. Both my DC have severe allergies that presented when they were a few weeks old. I really feel for you. It is exhausting.

Just get by however you can. We just let DD sleep on us. No point in getting stressed about trying to get them to sleep on their own when there are other issues.

Agree to trying different milks if things aren't settling down.

I also recommend swaddling (we used the Love to Dream swaddle suits). Our 2 year old had awful silent reflux when she was a baby and was medicated. She spent the first couple of months of her life in a sling and she was held for all naps until she was about 5 months.

It does get better, honestly. It's all about survival for now and it sounds like you're really working as a team, which is great. I found 4 months a real turning point and then 6 months when she could sit up unaided.

You're both doing a great job - well done!

Have you got the mattress slightly tilted so his head is higher than his feet? We folded up a towel under the head end (only about an inch or so higher) to help him not get reflux as he’s laid flat.

My first baby was exactly like this. Up every 1.5-2 hours and constant wriggling in between. We used to let him sleep in the baby bouncer (constantly supervised) during the day for naps and then we all suffered at night. Doctor said hold him upright for 30 mins after feeding but I never found it helped.

We did shifts like you’re doing now and time helped. I think it was between 3-4 months that we saw a huge difference. He has slept 12 hours every night since then and still does now at 2.5. I started a routine with him around that time too because DH had surgery so I needed consistency to survive!

Do you have any family or friends that could watch baby while you catch up on sleep in the day or evening? I definitely would have asked for help if that was an option but unfortunately wasn’t. You think you won’t survive it but you definitely will and you’ll find everything else much easier as you go through it.

DD was like this. Undiagnosed cows milk protein allergy & silent reflux; screamed for hours on end. We ended up co-sleeping; I propped her up slightly on my arm. It helped.
You CAN co-sleep safely, just do some research (ie no alcohol, no smoking, no thick duvets etc.).

Have you tried tight swaddling?

It gets better! I could have written your post myself.

My husband and I also used to sleep in shifts similar to yours.

My son slept through (almost) from around 16 weeks but he would wake up around 5am to come and sleep on my chest, which we did.

6 months onwards was the real break through with just gastric issues. Just hold tight, things will get better soon and this will all be a distant memory. Good luck.

One of our twins had very bad silent reflux and the other had colic. We had one baby each and there was never any respite. It lasted 11 weeks the until one slept through the night, her sister followed at 14 weeks. I think it was good karma for the horrific first 11 weeks of literally NEVER sleeping.

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies they're so nice encouraging to read. I meant to say my wife sleeps from 9pm, not 6pm! (That would be her dream haha).

Yep the cot is raised at one end and we wind him for ~20 mins abs keep him upright for a further 20. It's tough work but the radio helps a lot!

Poor little guy we do feel for him, he's clearly in distress so I guess all we can do it cuddle him and keep him as comfortable as possible. it's nice to hear people in a similar situation also didn't get much joy with sleep training. We do swaddle him but he still manages to kick around and grunt like nobodies business!

My wife is looking to try and relax while co-sleeping... she's quite nervous about it due to all the potential risks, but we're trying out different techniques.

Donor breastmilk be helpful, as it can heal the gut very quickly after allergy reactions. There is often dairy/other allergen-free donor milk on the human milk 4 human babies Facebook page.

Another vote for bed sharing, but worth doing a lots of research so you both feel comfortable and safe. If your wife offered the breast for comfort dry nursing, this could help baby to sleep longer while your wife also sleeps, in the side lying feeding position (but this could induce relactatation so your wife would have to cut out the allergens). Did she breastfeed at the start? Studies show that even when breastfeeding stops, the mother-baby dyad continue to exhibit very safe behaviours when bedsharing, like frequent and synchronised, stirring. James McKenna has published a lot of work on this.

Sleeping on his side and front helped my CMPA son. Lullaby Trust say this is safe once baby can roll on their own, so may be a while yet.

Also, all those cuddles will be totally sorting him out and preventing him from releasing stress hormones. Loads of skin to skin cuddles and sling wearing from both of you can really help him regulate.

OP, look into the owlett foot monitor. We invested in one when it became clear baby would not play ball and wanted to do sleep.

Co

Thanks all again for the replies. Had a few better days and the last two nights he slept for 3 hours in gummy is crib before kicking around, cramping up like a pretzel and groaning... but tonight it's all gone backwards and I'm back with him in my arms while he sleeps.

It's so draining and disappointing, feel a bit like we've done this to ourselves by always holding him. People say to us "just let him cry a bit" but it just doesn't work like that for us. Any movements always just escalate to full on meltdown if he's not seen to!

Give me strength!