Fathers

[SDL2018]

Hi
As time goes by and surveys are created (and results produced and published) and topical radio stations discuss parenthood, it (strongly) appears that men as fathers would benefit from discussing their feelings/role/difficulties etc.

I am a qualified but non-practising midwife.
During my 10-plus years as a midwife in the NHS, men were not given a real opportunity to say how they felt about all aspects of childbirth and fatherhood. This was undoubtedly due to lack of resources and time (the reason I finally left the NHS).

Over the past 2 years, I have had experience of men leaving their new family and even considering suicide as they are unclear where they "fit in", what is expected of them and have had altered feelings towards their partner and child/ren.

My aim is to create a face-to-face discussion group/s in as many areas of the UK as possible
On a simple internet search, there appears to be very little face-to face services - online forums seem to be "en vogue"
I feel that men need more than this......
I can see the appeal of online services as most of us are "time-poor" but feel that men should give themselves some time per week to "talk about them" and what is happening in their worlds.

I have attended 2 "Mens Groups" in the past - both very helpful for differing reasons. My wish would be to replicate this for fathers and help to improve their and their families' lives......

I wonder if anyone has any comments on the above and, if a group were available to you, would you be interested in attending?

Thanks
Steven

I think this is a brilliant idea(I'm female),but my children's father,ended his life 10 years ago....we will never know why,I never had/have the answers to their questions,can't ever quite get my head around it. Heartwrenching thinking he must have had thought no one cared,wanted to know,afraid to show his feelings. Anyway,Best of luck with it all Steven x

Depending on location, my DH would want to attend. I applaud your idea and wish you the best of luck!

Dear Bexter 801
Thanks for your message
So sad to read about your children's Dad.....how old are your children now?
And it is no surprise that you have/had no answers for them. You are not expected to have them.....

Am really hoping that a potential group could make a small difference
Not to change the world but to gently get fathers talking.....

All very early days yet......
I am also new to Mumsnet......please forgive me, what does DH stand for?
Would rather ask......!!
Steven

Out of interest. did you (as mothers) have opportunities to talk with other Mums? Maybe through NCT groups, baby groups etc.?
S

Bexter-so sorry for your loss.

Another woman sorry but think this is a great idea. Not sure if the fathers I know would go but am sure they would with a gentle push or knowing that other normal dads are going.

I definitely think men should be encouraged to talk more, just don't know how to help them.

Their 16 and 19 now,so thank goodness their able to grasp the situation to some extent themselves,are a lot less angry than when they were little. I personally didn't have anywhere/one to go speak to about it. I have no doubt the group you form will make a massive difference,and hopefully start a much needed change... Oh,DH stands for darling/dearest husband! And thank you @buckeejit

Brilliant idea, my husband would love it.

Interesting how all the replies so far are from women.

Good luck with the project, op.

Thanks for your messages - brilliant to hear from both women and men

Yes, getting men to discuss things can be challenging
I am intending to hold the discussion groups in pubs......a fairly comfortable environment for most men (though am aware that talking and alcohol should not mix!!......will have to get round that one!)

Bexter - you and your children sound amazing......despite having very little help at such a dreadful time.

Ploppy - could you possibly describe how you know/feel that your husband would love it? Is he a "talker" anyway? Would be good to chat with him at some point......

Thanks Grainne......hopefully will have set-up something soon!!
S

Hopefully some men will pipe up here soon :),it would defo me a milestone. Bestest of luck with it all

Thank you Bexter!

Yes, where are they???!!!!!!

I don't know!!,but I'll keep commenting to try keep this thread alive

Will be my first post here so go easy on me :)

But hopefully it will be useful.

My partner and I have our first child and she's in neo-natal currently (will be for quite a while if everything ends well).

There is the odd thing going on at the hospital we are at and I think your biggest issue will be getting fathers to go to the groups. Even though I am aware of them I'm a shy person generally and so find it even more difficult than your average bloke to express feelings or just discuss whats going on (part of the reason i've signed up to here I think).

But yeah, I think your biggest challenge will be convincing fathers to go to them. From my own experiences over the past month I've always felt that I need to be there to support my wife and there's no time for me to get emotional or anything as it then set's her off (presumably because of circumstances, baby blues and hormones).

My suggestion would not necessarily to have groups focused on fathers talking but try just getting them together. If you can find a way to bring them together I suspect that they would surprise you a bit more in that they are more likely to talk about things with other fathers that are in similar circumstances.

Again that's just my opinion :) Hope it helps

Thanks so much Ruika!

Congratulations on the birth of your daughter - am really hoping that all goes well for you all during your time with the neonatal unit.

Have you met a family liaison nurse/person there? This is someone who "bridges the gap" between NICU and home. This service may give you an opportunity to talk about how you are feeling....try not to bottle things up if you can.

Thanks so much for your view on the father's "meetings"
Yes, I agree with you - the challenge is there.
I think there needs to be some structure - nothing formal at all - so that men just don't get together and talk about football (for example)!!

Hearing from you with your experience has been very important as not only do fathers tend to feel a little "helpless" when a new baby comes along but, with the added stress/worry/helplessness connected to having a baby on the NICU, this must increase substantially.

Thanks again for your posting.
I am definitely considering what any potential group should be promoted as.

Steven

Hi
I think it sounds a great idea although I have reservations that many would attend in person. An online 'discussion' forum where people can dip in for ideas and help would be good.
Dadsnet, as a sub forum of Mumsnet is, or at least looks a bit of a backwater. Maybe 'speak' to MN control and get them to put it as a bit more of a prominent thing on the main startup page. It does say 'By parents for parents' but the 'male' side of this rapidly disappears into the dust as the majority of the threads are rather more women focused.
It would probably need a (near) full time, or at least regular orchestration to at least get the ball rolling as I think men tend to want to get the facts then get out rather than long dialogues.
This could take 'data' from actual meetings, of course written up by a moderator and anonymised to just the gist of the discussion to be presented as directions for online discussion.
Rather than starting from scratch I think you should at least speak to Mumsnet HQ and ask for their help and ideas. I think a real life group meetup would be very difficult to get going as although you may get 10 people wanting to get together you can bet they won't have the same hour available to actually do it.
On other notes: On mumsnet you don't 'sign' your real name (I have to keep remembering not to!).
You can Message poster for a direct, confidential conversation.
If you want to get your 'message' across don't post in Dadsnet. If you put it in AIBU or maybe Chat you get more 'airspace' especially if it is a bit controversial but you then need a thick skin as you will be accused of invading a woman's space.
Saying that there are areas on MN that are so helpful and caring.
I would not attend now I am afraid mainly due to location and my DC (Dear Child) is near grown up.
By all means message me if you wish as it is a very worthy idea.
Out

The anonymity would certainly help.

You are probably correct outabout with regards to times as well. This idea will potentially start small so trying to get those small numbers together at the same time / point would be difficult.

The idea of having dadsnet much like there is a gransnet would be a good step. Dad's are always forgotten about and to some extent the idea of 'mumsnet' is exactly that. Don't get me wrong I think mumsnet is great but just the title itself would put dad's off coming here in the first instance and few would look through the talk section to find the 'dadsnet' sub section.

If you had a similar site / message board / forum (and it can be done in conjunction with mumsnet) then down the road you could think about developing meet ups through that website?

By structure SDL2018, the hospital our little girl is at did a gaming event. So they got a couple of Nintendo Switches and wii's etc (this was aimed at all parents to give them a break out of neonatal). But it's an incentive to get people together, and maybe find somewhere with 2 rooms adjoined so that you could have the next room as a 'talking space' or something.

Thank you both

And thanks for the tip re: signing message!
Learning about site daily!!

All ideas and comments taken on board

Thanks again

Going back to meet up times. Most men would usually be at work during daytimes. Once home and had meal etc you are getting towards 8pm.
For Stay at Home Dads (SAHD) daytimes would be possible but would need child friendly location. There are only a relative few of those beyond the now possible parental leave period.
I know this sounds negative but unless you were based in a city or large town the pool of possible attendees is small. I am guessing that men who live away from larger towns might be more in need of a 'group' to discuss things but by nature of location would find it impossible to go out to it.
I have a very minor issue with Mumsnet which has the additional line by parents for parents being hijacked by women rapidly going off on womencentric tangents rather than parenting. I am not suggesting they shouldn't but it is moving away from PARENTS who by definition are (usually) men and women. Parentsnet would not be as snappy a title and would probably not attract sufficient footfall.
Having access to some professional advice, (Steven as a midwife) and others who could oversee with a professional background to advise on areas where things might be better taken to a professional advisor. I am not suggesting that they would give out specific advice but to flag up a possible problem and URGE people to seek proper advice, with links or whatever to help them get help efficiently. You will see this in other threads where (usually) women are signposted to womes's refuges etc.
Maybe setup a form of blog, (under the Mumsnet website) with a series of discussion topics where maybe (Steven) or hopefully others with a relevant professional specialism will set out a scenario and encourage 'chat' about it.

Thanks
It's not sounding negative, very realistic.

My gut feeling for this sort of group is to host it in a pub (one place where most men feel comfortable) in the evening to make it accessible to both groups of men. I know that fathers getting home to care for children is high on the agenda (and some partners may not appreciate the idea) but the service would be a "drop-in", available every week - but not necessarily to be attended every week.
Also the idea is to include all fathers at all stages (pregnancy through to teenager) to share ideas and thoughts.

I hear - and appreciate - your idea about an online forum.....but that is really what I am trying to avoid.
So much gets "lost in translation" online or by mechanical methods!
Face to face meeting is where I am going - hopefully!!

Online is a good start - as you said previously - so will definitely consider that.

And will follow up with MNHQ re: By Parents, For Parents

Thanks again outabout!

Since you have worked ad a midwife maybe talk to the local mother and baby unit and put up some notices and flyers to sound out the idea of a 'man's support group. If there is a suitably sympathetic 'head' of the unit maybe he (probably she) would be good enough to field initial questions that possible 'customers' for your group might ask. Obviously not in depth as they will be far too busy. You wouldn't be able to 'hang around' at the hospital anyway. Do a bit of research for a pub that would have suitable space (now THERE'S an excuse!) and post up a 'meet' for about 3 weeks time. Long enough to get a reasonable exposure but not so long that they then forget to go.
I manages to get through DC's former years by putting food in one end, wiping the other and keeping it warm and entertained during waking hours.

Thanks
You sound as if you would be extremely good at setting up a group like this yourself!!! Great comments/advice/guidance
Have you not thought of doing this at any point?!

I don't like contributing something aimed at men, but my husband isn't on mumsnet

He would have liked a group of dads to meet up with pre/post birth, but we didn't get into the NCT group it was full. The NHS offered a post natal group for mothers, it ran roughly at the 3 month old mark and was a godsend for me - it was lead by the health visitors. I think my husband would have needed a real specific aim like though - like 'which pram to buy with loads of examples and a terrain set up and some dads with slightly older children to share their pram knoweldge' then hopefully some natural chat would appear.

He did go to a dads club which ws at the children centre. It offered bacon butties and was on a Saturday morning and was aimed at dads with toddlers - it had a sporty theme. He enjoyed that, but waiting 2 years for an activity to join with is quite a long time.

Hi
Probably getting a bit revealing but we were members of a NCT group who did stuff like coffee mornings and various other events. One of the advantages of such groups is that it can allay quite a lot of fears. You think your little one is doing 'weird stuff' then you go along and they all do it! I was even 'chairperson' for the group for a year.
I have been involved in other activities and one thing you learn is that there are limits to what can be achieved for a variety of reasons. I can fully appreciate your (Steven) wish to make it a physical meet up and hope you can achieve it but of the SAHDs I knew I don't think any would actually go, or if it was a pub there may not be much 'child related talk'.
For what it is worth, apart from the obvious birth process and breastfeeding, beyond that men are equally capable of raising children as women.
I have not investigated Mumsnet local but maybe with help from MNHQ your meet ups could be 'advertised' there although to get it really going you need as much publicity as possible.