Children Don't Belong in Daycare.

[clarlce]

Hello Dadsnetterers...I have posted this in the mumsnet area but the response is only hostile as i think most working mums still feel they need to defend their decision to work full-time. The issues raised should concern Dads equally.

I found this quite interesting:

childrensneeds.homestead.com/daycare1.html

Clearly its going to annoy a lot of full-time working mothers. I personally feel SOMEONE should stay at home with the kids, if they can (being honest about whether or not they can)but try not to knee-jerk hate this because i think the points she makes, while a bit sickly, are convincing.

I was thinking about what other aspects of home-life children pick up on that they simply couldn't get from a nursery or even a nanny who comes to the home.

Childminders are, these days, fully qualified (frequently to degree level) in the ins and outs of caring for children. Now, on the surface, this looks fantastic. Why have children raised by their parents, who may or may not know what they're doing, when our children could be raised by trained professionals.

There was something just a bit icky about the phrase 'raising children with trained professionals' that didn't sit well with me. What about the spontaneity of parents? the mistakes? the political in-correctness? The government rants? The swearing? The argument that parents can also be abusive and neglectful is true but that is a separate issue. Im talking about run of the mill, average, doing the best they can parents - the majority.

Will the characters of our children become monochrome because they're spending most of their time in the care of 'Government formed, professional parents' who, despite years of training, will NEVER adore their charges as a parent would?

I know its a subtle point and im not even certain it holds any water - just wondered what anyone else thought.

Is there something to be said for the kind of parenting our grandparents knew? That slap-dash, imperfect, frustrated, conditionally loving, real-life parenting.

So how long have you been a sahd, and how is it working for you?

Go. Away.

I am a stay at home parent. Obviously, otherwise I wouldn't be trying to justify my own choices with material such as this.

I just cant bear parenting by the book...there's something so icky and state-controlling about it. And its starting earlier and earlier now. kids with flat heads because the government says they MUST be put to bed on their backs. tummy-time, soft-play time, creativity with colours etc. etc. fucking etc.

This is a perennial red herring. It depends on the quality of the daycare versus the quality of care at home. I don't see how the latter is necessarily better if the SAHM is slowly going insane.

Parenting our grandparents knew???? If you talked to my grandparents, I suspect they would say they had little to no "parenting" - lots of kids, probably not enough money to go round all of the time, older kids helping rasie younger ones.

Swings and roundabouts. Assuming you have good childcare and good parenting then there are benefits and disadvantages to each. Most studies on the issue are biased one way or the other, depending on who has commissioned them.

Live your own life, do your own thing, why worry what others do?

Personally I would have thought both parents working reduced hours with a bit of child-care would be my ideal.

But each to their own.

Just love and support your children and you can't go far wrong.

Yea, lol at 'parenting our grandparents knew'.

DO you know how people used to treat their kids!?

Beating were routine for a start.

Utter codswallop.

I am a sahm. It works for our particular needs as a family, but it isn't what everyone wants/needs to do.

I would love to be a sahm. I worry about not being able to get back into my career though. I think little children really should be with their parents. Talking to a one of my husbands colleagues (DH is a GP) who is interested in this, there is more and more research saying the first 2 years of life are crucial to develop a sense of love, stability, and being secure and 'happy in your own skin'. I can't think of a not twee way to say that now.

Nobody has to be a perfect parent (is there any such thing?), just a good-enough parent. And i truly believe that a parent is best placed to look after their child, though ideally it would be a split between both parents, even if that can't be equal to give mum (or dad, whoever's providing the majority of the childcare) some time to keep their sanity!!! (says she who cried leaving DD with grandpa for one hour for the first time at the weekend...)

I will be going back to work 2 days a week, i think, but DD will be with her dad one day and a grandparent who adores her, in her own environment, the other day. I wil hope that works for us.

I don't think it is a disaster if a child has to be in childcare, some love it. Some hate it and take ages to settle and aleays cry being dropped off. (this is what parents have reported to me- i work with children, mostly school age but some early years children) I personally couldn't put my 10 month DD in childcare at a young age, though I think fom 2, 2.5 i may consider some time in nursery for her. Thats my personal opinion. Its the personal love for the child which is missing in a childcare environment, though there are many friendly caring staff, it can't replace being the centre of your family's universe!!!!

Arf at grandparents!
1 set emotionally abused their children their whole lives, the other set sent their children off to board at age 5. Fantastic parenting all round.

Jog on, will you?

blimey, i just looked at your link clarlce, and i'm glad i don't have to put my child in daycare because that would make me feel very guilty and super-defensive!!! Though i do agree with many of the points, it's quite emotionally charged with few facts and a lot of circumstantial evidence from watching one (poor) childminder....

After all, it does have to be balanced against income and running the family home and sadly too many people can't afford not to work. We moved house making sure it could be run on my DH's income alone (he is a much higher earner than me so no option for other way round) specifically so I could be a SAHM if poss.

Also makes me laugh about you saying you hate parenting by the book.

When what you are proposing is just a different book.

Story may be different, may have different covers, but its still a book in my book.

BTW, am not defensive, DD was with SAHP (first me then DH) until she was almost 2 and was very much ready for nursery for 4 hours a day at that point. But that was her. All children are different - I have a friend who has a DD almost 4 who's never spent a minute in a nursery or with a nanny in her life, and one whos child went to nursery FT at 1. Can't say I notice any difference between how well adjusted either of them are - they both seem like pretty normal 4yo girls to me.

So have my first ever

And, BTW, a lot of dads also feel the need to work FT and get defensive about those who criticise their choices, so its not just Mums.

You complain that you got a hostile reaction on other MN boards because you say mothers who work FT are "defensive" but then you explain that you are posting this to "justify [your] own choices".

Pots and kettles.

A better plan of action would be to be happy with your own personal decision based on your circumstances and stop telling other people that their choices are inferior to yours.

'Parenting our grandparents knew' - that's right, lets send them down 't mine.

Childrens lives have improved hugely, harking back to the 'good old days' is quite frankly ridiculous.

And the idea that it's only recently that both parents have worked is naive and uninformed. Poor women have always had to work, its always only been middle class or rich women who've been able to make the choice of whether to stay at home (or of course not had that choice at all, whole other can of worms).

Due to the nature of the work that I do, I am very lucky and able to stay at home with my dd during the day. I work evenings and weekends, doing just 20 hours a week. My dh will look after my dd when im at work.
I was always the kind of person who said that when I had children I would never work untill they were at school full time, however, since becoming a parent, I realised that I was living in a dream world. With having a mortgage to pay, it means that both me and my dh has to work in order to keep a roof over our heads and feed our dd, and our dc2 which will be here in october. My dh does not have a high paid job, as if he did then I would probably be able to not have to work.

I don't like the idea of people putting their babies into childcare if they dont have to. I understand that there are single parents out there who have no choice, or couples/married parents who are on low income that need to work, and have no choice but to use childcare. But, if it is just so the parents can concentrate on getting higher up the carrer ladder and put their babies into childcare from 6 months, then I disagree with that. IMHO

Just to add and agree with Pootles2010, both my grandmothers worked when they had children. Their husbands died when young and my dads mum in particular had 3 different jobs at different times throughout the day. In the summer when they were off school, the eldest had a key to the house and the others were outside for most of the time and let in for lunch etc.

AYe, my grannies both worked.

Older kids looked after theh little ones.

My grandmothers both worked too (and not in glamourous jobs either). My grampa used to take my dad and his brothers out to work on the roads with him during school holidays too.

Ahh, the good old days.

Being a SAHM is a modern lifestyle choice, and certainly was never an option for the ordinary family 100 years ago - it was an invention of the 1950s onwards. So actually a very short period in family evolution - maybe 50 years of most women being able to have the choice.

There are lots of modern parents who use the 'grandparent' style parenting method you refer to - leaving the kids to play by themselves or be 'supervised' by older siblings, smacking, dad at the pub every night, having more children than they are able to cope with. The trouble is that society has changed and these children are often the ones that end up with asbos, drug and alcohol problems, criminal records etc.

Oh, and government advising people to lie babies to sleep on their backs saves about 1300 young lives a year. A few flat heads which usually correct themselves is hardly comparable to hundreds of devastated families.

NerfHerder - sounds just like my grandparents!! Excellent parenting, what a shame I haven't followed their example .

I also wasn't aware that the govt recommended soft-play time or creative colour time.