German query

[MossyPeak]

Any native German speakers about?

Was looking at DS’s German homework with him and he wrote this:

Wenn es regnet, möchte ich eine Kunstausstellung besuchen, da man nicht Fußball spielen kann. (I think Google translate played a big part in this!)

I used to speak German reasonably well but am very rusty now so am not feeling confident in my instincts, but the placing of that “nicht” feels all wrong to me. Then again, I can’t see anywhere else to put it. I wondered if you would say, “da man kein Fußball spielen kann”?

And now I really want to know if I’m right that it’s wrong, or if Google translate did a decent job in this case, and I have just lost all my German mojo!

Can anyone help? Danke sehr!

Wenn es regnet, möchte ich eine Kunstausstellung besuchen, weil (because) man kein Fußball spielen kann.

nicht ein= kein
nicht Fussball = kein Fussball

So your instincts were correct.

Thank you! Haha, can show this to DS now and assert my superiority over the Google machine

Why are you using moechte there rather than besuche ich/wuerde ich

He’s insistent on the “da” though - says they’ve been taught to use that in place of or interchangeably with “weil” (native German speaker teachers), and are actively encouraged to use it. It’s not something we did in my day!

That’s his choice. They’re meant to be practising modals and I think it’s ok? For context it follows on from him saying he’s not very keen on art galleries but he would consider them under these circumstances…

I am with your son -'da' is certainly correctly used and the use of 'nicht' is also correct in this sentence. I personally would not say 'kein Fußball' when referring to the game (and not the ball) but this might be due to regional difference (Austrian native speaker).

Well that’s confused me all over again - but as a native speaker you obviously know what you’re talking about, so thank you!

Well students are encouraged to use a variety of tenses, so conditional would get a better mark than using 'besuche ich ...'

I agree it would be kein instead of nicht.

Da is fine and good to use as well as weil. I would say kein Fussball or da man Fussball nicht spielen kann

(MFL teacher)

Sorry, but I'd disagree with you on the last part.

OP, as others have mentioned, both versions seem OK. TBH, the way your son has written it, is how I would say it, but it looks a bit odd written down. I believe it's either down to local accents, or it's just an informal way of saying it.

Another native speaker vote for nicht over kein (Württemberg, so also from the South). "Da" is correct but not ime used much colloquially so I would tend towards "weil" or "denn" here. (Of course in actual spoken German word order tends to get inverted, so would be: weil da kann man nicht Fußball spielen. Quite ungrammatical but it is what it is.)

is he trying to say he might consider going to see an art exhibition? In that case, möchte is a false friend/ incorrect translation. Möchte means would like to.

da is fine.
kein Fußball sounds fine to me, though I think nicht Fußball spielen actually also works - though this is an intricacy of German grammar. You could think of Fußball spielen as a verb; in fact it used to be written as a single word fußballspielen if I remember correctly before the Rechtschreibreform. Fußball nicht spielen however doesn’t work in this context.

In any case, you can tell your son that he is wrong as a little bit of rain wouldn’t keep any Germans from playing football

This is interesting. If I wanted to say “you can’t play xxx” (without the because) I would say “man kann nicht spielen” - then add in what you can’t play, so “man kann Federball nicht spielen.” Is that incorrect?

German is fine, though feels quite rehearsed and robotic.

"Falls es regnet, wuerde ich lieber ins Museum gehen, da man kein Fussball (scharfes S) mehr spielen kann"

This is all fascinating!

Of course in actual spoken German word order tends to get inverted, so would be: weil da kann man nicht Fußball spielen. Quite ungrammatical but it is what it is. Despite having spent quite a while in Germany back in the day, I never picked up on this! Figures, all languages become ungrammatical in the everyday spoken form - but of course no good for DS in a language test!

I preferred the nicht together with the spielen rather than the Fußball, but I liked your explanation of Fußballspielen as a single concept, FinanceLPlates!

BracedInEndlessJanuary it was indeed rehearsed (will keep schtum on the robotic) - this was actually an answer to one of a series of questions they were set to prepare for an oral assessment. It was a bit clunky I felt, but he’s not very keen on languages at all (much to my chagrin) so it’s just a win if he gets the basics; stylistic sophistication is probably a bit much to ask!

And the question began möchtest du so he was responding to that.

It’s really interesting to see all the different views on what sounds right - seems there is indeed a bit of regional variation, but again, you’d expect that. “Nicht Fußball spielen” still sounds weird to me, as a rusty non native speaker; but DS got a very good mark (somewhat amazingly) in his assessment today so whatever he said in the end, it did the job!

Thanks all for your input, it makes a nice change to ponder these linguistic conundrums with other like minded folk.

Months later, just to note, I don’t like the placement of that “da” and would likely say - “Da man bei Regen kein Fußball spielen kann, besuche ich lieber eine Kunstaustellung.”

I wouldn’t see an issue with “Da man bei Regen nicht Fußball spielen kann, besuche ich lieber eine Kunstaustellung.” but my German is Austrian and Bavarian influenced also, so that may be regional.

or maybe even “Da man kein Fußball spielen kann, besuche ich bei schlechtem Wetter lieber eine Kunstaustellung.”

I would say 'da man Fussball nicht spielen kann.'

Even later...

Either put the nicht before the spielen rather than the Fußball or use kein before the Fußball.

I'm a bit surprised that nobody pointed out that it should be keinen Fußball rather than kein Fußball though!

I disagree with this. Native speaker. The nicht needs to go before Fußball.

'I'm a bit surprised that nobody pointed out that it should be keinen Fußball rather than kein Fußball though!'

Good call...I have always resented German grammar's capacity to trip non-native speakers up, however hard you are trying to get it right.

Oooh excellent spot! Bloody masculine akkusativ tripping us up again.

Good call...I have always resented German grammar's capacity to trip non-native speakers up, however hard you are trying to get it right.

Yup! I'm an MFL teacher, so I probably find these mistakes easier to spot than most non-native speakers. I spend a lot of time correcting them .