Calling all language lovers!

[Gauchita]

I'll shamelessly plug a friend's blog here because it's great!

If you're interested in language, etymology, linguistics, etc, head this way.

She's an etymology addict (and doesn't mind me saying so ) and is teaching the rest of us a lot, so thank you Alex

alexpolistigers.wordpress.com/

Catchin up! Crazy days with work here.

Mardy, IKWYM re. some differences in meaning between ser and estar but in that particular example you wouldn't say 'soy cansada' but 'soy cansadora' so it wouldn't apply. It would, though in the case of 'estoy aburrida' (I'm bored) and 'soy aburrida' (I'm boring, as in 'a boring person').

I love the fact that you can use gerunds in English with an adjectival function (She sent me a letter saying that...) For Spanish speakers this is a big issue as we've taken the structure from EN and the grand majority of people use it in SP, but it's not correct. Teachers suffer badly In SP we need to use an adjectival clause 'Me envió una carta que decía...'

Man, I love grammar (and now my post will be full of errors, of course )

I love grammar too - and you have just given me a thought. It might be interesting to look at differing use of gerund/ present participles across different languages in a future article. I shall make a note of it.

I forgot about this thread.

That's interesting, Gauchita about the gerund in Spanish. I did some Spanish (a while ago, now, so please don't push me on it!) and I remember using the gerund in the way we do in English. I didn't realise it was considered incorrect. I don't remember being corrected on it.

Niarfi, it's so commonly used, everybody seems to use it that way. Many don't even know it's wrong (and you'd without a doubt be considered a pedant PITA if you told someone the structure is actually incorrect )

Children in school are taught the correct structure, of course, but then they go home and listen to the other everywhere else ha! To be very honest, I don't think it's a battle that correct grammar will get to win these days.

Thanks, Gauchita, that would explain why nobody pulled me up on it, if native speakers don't even notice it as being wrong.

Does anyone know if it is used in the "English" sort of way in other languages too? I'm curious, now!

I mean, if the gerund is used in the same way as in English. Sorry, my post didn't quite read right

Very interesting thread; would love to know the derivation / meaning of a Turkish phrase which goes something like "get over the bridge safely before you call the bear "Uncle".

That sounds like an interesting expression, Isabella.

I don't speak any Turkish, and I have no experience of this, but could it mean something like "think carefully before you speak" or maybe "don't make any rash decisions until you know you are safe"

I can't help you on the expression - I don't speak Turkish either. If CoteDAzur is around, she is a Turkish speaker.

But as for the gerund - the present participle is used quite differently in Greek. In fact, it is much less common than in English and you don't use it adjectivally. It would be used in the sense "as I was going to the park" (for example), so you might say "Going to the park..." as long as it refers to the same subject as in the next verb. In Gauchita's example, "a card saying bla bla", you would have to say "a card which said bla bla". (or actually, "which wrote", because you tend to use the word "write" in this context in Greek)

I suspect "call x uncle" is going to be an idiomatic something meaning "insult x", in which case it's "don't wind someone up while they can still reach you"

I remember being told that calling someone a goat in Russian should not be attempted unless one wishes to fight, because the implication is "you are very goatish because your father was a goat because your mother is so ugly that no man would sleep with her".

That's sort of what I meant, Horry, with the Turkish phrase.

How funny about Russian! I had no idea! Not that I am in the habit of using "goat" as an insult anyway...

All the stuff about the gerund, or the present participle, or whatever it's called, sounds quite complicated. Is there a past continuous participle? I know the past participle is like "eaten" or "fried" can you tell I'm hungry right now, but is there an "ing" equivalent?

That probably doesn't make much sense, but I hope you get what I mean

In English "participles" can only be past or present (-ing or -ed). You can show the equivalent of a past continuous by using a mixture (having -ed).

Oh, I have found my new virtual home. Thanks for the link!

I was confused for a minute there about the participles, I was wondering what you meant! But I see from Horry's post that you meant "having eaten" or perhaps "was eating".

Is anyone else seized with an urge to find out some goat expressions in Russian? Or am I just feeling childish tonight

I like the way calling someone "like a goat" in Spanish (estás como una cabra, estás cabreada) means mad or really angry, cos goats are a bit mad aren't they?

I also love all the really rude and often blasphemos curses in Spanish.

That's funny, GoodtoBetter. I have just made a note of that!

In Greek you use "goat" for someone who moves around too much, who won't keep still (horopidas san to katsiki)

Thanks for clearing that up about the participles. It seems really obvious now.

Actually, you've all inspired me. I've decided I'm going to take up Spanish again.

Btw Alex I like your articles with the verbs with different meanings, like "throw" and "put".

Well technically I suppose they're continuous or complete but English teachers and syntacticians don't use the same jargon

That's great Niarfi. Funnily enough, I've just been saying to Gauchita in the last few days that I would like to learn Spanish properly!

I'm glad you like the articles, I certainly have fun writing them! Personally I like writing about expressions most of all, though.

Horry Do you actually speak Russian, or was that just something you've heard?

I lived with a Russianist with a Russian girlfriend just after his Year Abroad. He could have been having us on but tbh he was bursting with stories about His Year In Russia that he had no need to exaggerate. He taught us several useful Russian insults

I would like to learn a Slavic language, and although it would be fun to do another alphabet and learn Russian, I have been looking at Slovenian more recently. There are so many cases still in use in the modern language, plus the language still uses duality of nouns, I really find it fascinating.

The closes Slavic language to me geographically speaking according to where I live would be Bulgarian, but I would like to do a "small" language in terms of numbers of speakers!

Isabella - That saying is: "Kopruyu gecinceye kadar ayiya dayi demek" = Calling the bear "Uncle" until you cross the bridge (that it is on).

It plays on the similarity of the words "ayi" (bear) and "dayi" (uncle), and refers to treating someone nicely until you get what you want from them.

Re "past continuous" - It's been a while since I studied English grammar but isn't that what we do with "I was going..." etc?

While we are on this topic, there is a past tense in Turkish that means "I heard it happened but I wasn't there to see it". So if you say "Yagmur yagdi" it means you saw it rain, and if you say "Yagmur yagmis" it means you heard it rained but didn't actually see it.

There is lots of fun to be had with this. For example, "Geldim" means "I came" and you would say "Gelmisim" only if you are talking about a drunken adventure where you don't remember a thing or possibly about a sleepwalking episode.

Ha ha I love the idea of an "I was so drunk I can't be sure" tense. Why don't all languages have that?!

The past continuous conversation was a spinoff from gerunds and other non-finite phenomena.

Cote that's priceless! I have to learn some Turkish, what a great tense! I wish it existed in English! We could call it the "hearsay" tense!

There are lots of Turkish speakers who live near me, but apparently, their version of the language isn't the same as standard Turkish spoken in Turkey, they have something of a dialect.