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will there ever be a great writer again..has there really been anybody since Charles Dickens ...does anybody write great social commentary any more? Why don't Save the Children or the NSPCC sponsor writers instead of advertisers?

30 replies

zippitippitoes · 30/01/2007 09:33

....we still have issues but no one can write about them and produce great literature why not?

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Pruni · 30/01/2007 09:37

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sunnysideup · 30/01/2007 09:57

but Pruni the child called it books are not great literature, are they! Yes they address issues but they are not on a par with Dickens!

I know what you mean Zippi.

I think much of the 20th Century was a self absorbed and selfish one and maybe that's why no-one produces great literature about issues.....too busy looking after number one.

Aloha · 30/01/2007 09:58

I don't think the only definition of a great writer is that they are an effective campaigner on domestic social issues. Charles Dickins was a journalist with a journalist's instincts, as well as a novelist. In modern times he might well be writing screenplays about, say, blood diamonds, or homelessness, such as Cathy Come Home, or about Aids, such as Philadelphia. Or he might find that journalism now allowed him to write searing articles about famine, or investigative pieces about Islington children's homes. Novelists are still discussing the big issues of the day - sexual politics, race, politics - but the whole landscape of writing and campaigning has shifted, and there are other outlets for writers who wish to , plus, of course, the explosion in non-fiction writing, meaning that writers are dealing with difficult issues in novel-style but factual books. Blimey, the best-seller lists are absolutely packed with people's own descriptions of their abusive childhoods.

DimpledThighs · 30/01/2007 09:58

maybe the medium has changed from books to tv and then the internet.

We will be remembered for the generation that brought you big brother (I mean the Jade variety not the Orwell variety!)

KezzaG · 30/01/2007 10:02

I think television has taken over as the real social commentator of our time, but because it is so immediate but also so disposable, it does not have the same impact as an author like Dickens did. An hour documentary on the plight of a childrens home, or ethnic minority isnt as hard hitting when sandwiched between Corrie and Eastenders.

I suppose soaps could actually be a form of social commentary. I dont watch any but it doesnt seem that they truely reflect life in the UK.

I imagine books like A Child Called It and so on, would help the cause of childrens charities, but it seems that people almost have emotional overload with the huge number of them around now.

I am trying to think of a book with a point to make about our current social ills that has had a major impact on the way people think and act. I cant think of one, in fact all that springs to mind is Jamie Oliver, tv and celebrity once again.

Cappuccino · 30/01/2007 10:05

a lot of cutting edge literature is not handled by large publishers because it has become such an industry

I heard the other day that book publishers were making sure that their covers didn't look challenging or controversial in order to sell more

There is some fantastic work out there, you just have to look harder for it

NotQuiteCockney · 30/01/2007 10:05

I think people used to all read the same book, more than they do now. Dickens was serialised in magazines etc, everyone was reading him.

But there are loads of good writers talking about social ills. My brain is mush this morning, but I'm sure I can dig up some good recent books with modern child mistreatment in them, and/or serious poverty, if you give me some time to think.

Marina · 30/01/2007 10:07

What a Carve Up is being increasingly recognised as very important and angry novel about the 1980s (apart from the writer being a major fox).
Aloha is right. Dickens was a journalist with a novelist's nose for a good story and a keen sense of the times. He was not writing in isolation - Lord Shaftesbury and Henry Mayhew were contemporaries.

KTeePee · 30/01/2007 10:07

I have read some good books that tackle the issues of today - but they have been non-fiction, not novels so don't know if they count as "great literature"

choosyfloosy · 30/01/2007 10:09

Clive James always used to cite Holocaust, the late 70s TV miniseries that prevented the passage of a statute of limitations in Germany. I think Roots the series had a political impact in the US, although I don't know in what form.

Just as the expansion of publishing has diluted the impact of any individual book, the expansion of channels has now diluted the impact of any individual programme. Unfortunately politicians can rely on even quite a strong sense of outrage over one issue being buried quite quickly by the next wave of 'news' or the next hearttugging drama.

Maybe Mark Thomas or Michael Moore are something like modern Dickens?

Marina · 30/01/2007 10:11

Armando Ianucci also seems to be fuelled by rage against politicians.
Agree that Michael Moore and Mark Thomas also important - maybe we are relying now on satire and comedy to highlight injustice.

Soapbox · 30/01/2007 10:14

I think that there have been well written socially aware fiction books.

I think several of the books of this century highlighting the plight of black americans in the semi-apartheid of the 50s and 60s are interesting. A small island was one of these, although written from a UK perspective, of how unwelcome the immigrant community was made to feel when arriving here.

Monica Ali's Brick Lane, although quite light reading, chronicles a quite passable view of second/third generation immigrants to London's East End.

What about Bonfire of the Vanities - a tale of two cities really!

Angela's Ashes - depicts life in Ireland, when social support for those in poverty was non-existant and life unremittingly harsh.

Philidelphia as Aloha has just said.

If we are getting heavy, Solzhenitsyn with his view of life behind the Iron Curtain, is a worthwhile read. I 'enjoyed' Cancer Ward too.

A quick search on Amazon looking at fiction and environment, brings up a plausible list of books some of which look like a good read!

Is perhaps the opposite true - that in fact there are so many good writers, writing about socially relevant matters, that one of them does not stand out in the way that Dickens did in his day? Perhaps fiction writers at that time were less willing to offend the sensibilities of their readers (who would have been primarily middle/upper class) by revealing too much about how gritty life was for the underclasses.

I also have to say, that whilst I appreciate Dickens for the writer that he was, I'm nevertheless no great reader of his books!

Aloha · 30/01/2007 10:14

Bob Geldof has worked to raise awareness of the problems in Africa. Things are so different to the mid 19th century now.

Soapbox · 30/01/2007 10:18

How could I have forgotton Trainspotter, by Irvine Welsh?

A real social documentary!

Soapbox · 30/01/2007 10:18

'Trainspotting'[durr]

Marina · 30/01/2007 10:24

David Hare, Tariq Ali, Howard Brenton - and lately Alistair Beaton - all writing political plays, some of which have been adapted for TV.
Wild Swans and The Bookseller of Kabul were both huge sellers.
Spike Lee and John Singleton's films - She's Gotta Have It and Boyz n the Hood...

zippitippitoes · 30/01/2007 10:27

I started this thread and then took the car to the garage!

I think it was the combination of popularity, satire, social commentary and the ability to write all rolled in to one..on the popularity stakes there is JK Rowling but that seems such a piteous comparison...

so a gritty big novel with satire and eloquence, mystery, secrets and social influence and one which can be visualised with developed characters..

the survivor stories are therapy rather than literature aren't they?

I wasn't thinking exclusively of NSPCC just considering the amount they spend on "campaigns" could bedifferently directed

People do read apparently but fantasy rather than social realism..though Dickens characters are pretty caricatured...

I'd like a sort of magical realism crossed with Dickens set in contemporary europe

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Soapbox · 30/01/2007 10:28

Isn't that what James Bond is

Pruni · 30/01/2007 10:32

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zippitippitoes · 30/01/2007 10:33

in a word..no

we don't get big novels which people want to read unless they are airport bonkbusters

as soon as they get big/serious they become somewhat unreadable

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Enid · 30/01/2007 10:34

but What a Carve Up his only good book IMO

Soapbox · 30/01/2007 10:35

I'm not sure that is true Zippi?

Of course the airport bonkbuster will always be more popular, just as the penny books probably were in Dickens time, fodder for the masses if you like.

But I think people still read long books, as long as they are interesting!

Some of Dicken's books are not that long in any case!

Pruni · 30/01/2007 10:35

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Pruni · 30/01/2007 10:38

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zippitippitoes · 30/01/2007 10:38

well I think possibly that is another difference..Dickens was a book factory and he toured etc

It is possible if JK did it, but is it possible to write well too and on a more weighty theme?

Who is the great British novelist of the nineties/noughties or even playwright or social commentator

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