Mum going to prison - what to tell children and when/how?

[chocolatekimmy]

Hello

My close friend has been charged with death by dangerous driving. She caused the death of the driver of another car last year through a mistake - she thought she was on a dual carriageway (and was overtaking a car) when she was in fact on a single carriage way. Its one of those A roads where it switches from dual to single for a long stretch. It was night time and she wasn't under the influence or speeding or using her phone etc. She has no other driving or any other criminal offences on record.

She accepts full responsibility for what she has done and she has been honest from the start. She expects to, and is preparing to be sent to prison.

The children know she was hurt in an accident a year ago but they don't know that mum caused the death of another person. They've probably forgot all about it now. They are 11 and 8.

The question is, how on earth does she/husband tell them that mum may go to prison. The hearing date isn't confirmed but it could be towards the end of this month/early March.

Also, are there any organisations out there that can help families in this situation?

My BIL drove without a licence and was sent to prison for six months. No accident. No dangerous driving. No one hurt. Nothing.

He's black - I bet that figured in his sentencing.

No early release, no open prison but a suitable punishment for his crime.

Scifi that does seem so dangerous to public safety though as driving tests are there for an important reason, to at least try and minimise accidents and ensure new drivers know the Highway Code etc. I feel sorry hr went to prison but also feel If the law was lenient on it I would feel less safe ?

@EL0ISE I'm sorry I don't really understand what you've taken issue with? I said she's probably felt no impact.

I can say that because she got out of her car and started shouting at my step sister who was not at fault in any way, while she was trapped in a car that had started smoking.

And because the first thing she said to the police was that SS was drunk.

Because when witnesses were trying to drag SS out of said smoking car she was trying to explain to witnesses what had 'happened', when they'd all seen it.

And don't tell me that was shock because my dad still had to argue with the insurance company over who was at fault (even after they'd received the police report) because she was still denying it was her fault 6 weeks later - while SS was lying in a hospital bed with limited speech and unable to use half of her body.

So sorry if my suggestion offended you but that doesn't sound like someone who'll be affected forever to me. I didn't realise I had to give you all of that information. My bad.

Thanks to everyone else for their lovely comments. She's doing much better now. She'll not be the same as she was but she's adapting well to her new life.

I think @RuffleCrow has it right and, at the very least, we should remove the driving licenses of people who cause death by dangerous driving. It feels like there needs to be more than that, and what do we then do when people drive without a license?

@SciFiScream there's no way that was his first offence

Thanks so much for all your replies. I actually agree with all the opinions in one way or another.

If someone close to me was killed in these circumstances I’d want them to serve time but equally it was a terrible, terrible mistake that as others have alluded to could be made by any of us (Or has already but without the devastating consequences).

I also question what there is to gain from a prison sentence and really feel for her family.

A frustrating point for me is that whilst she has admitted what she has done, and they’ve now charged her with dangerous driving she is still behind the wheel - what’s that all about!

@chocolatekimmy that's much more ridiculous than whether they do/don't send her to prison!

It does bring into question whether she actually does feel remorse IMO

Sometimes we have to do things we don't want though, I never wanted to drive again, but I had to take my DD to school I had over a year between offence and prison. I asked my parents, friends but eventually the favours ran out, coinciding with my councillor telling me if I don't drive sooner rather than later I may never do it again, I drove after a few months and it was honestly hell, I hated it and was so scared and nervous. So it may not be a reflection on her feelings.

@brokensouls76 did you ever get a driving ban? Or were you allowed to drive again when you got out?

Is your insurance premium really high now?

I really respect you for sharing your story, it really does give me a complete other perspective I'd never consider but everything you say makes sense.

I also see both sides of this, but there is a difference between dangerous driving ie drinking, texting, speeding whatever, and someone who makes a genuine split second error in the dark,one with terrible consequences. Even the most careful driver can do this. To err is human.

And I'm really not sure a genuine albeit horrific error is served any benefit by sending the person to jail, it won't stop others making s mistake, we cannot stop humans making errors by punishing others..

Should she be off the road, arguably yes, but prison? I'm not sure that's right.

I also don't know what is better for the family, to know it was an accident, one caused by human error yes, but still an accident, or that someone is at fault, which indicates an element of the deliberate.

I got a 4 year ban starting from when I went to prison, so by the time I got out I only had a couple of years to go. I didn't take my test for about 5 years after my ban was up as I really struggled to get back behind the wheel. I didn't have to disclose my offence as the only ask for anything within the past 5 years. As I was over this I didn't have to disclose, as a result of now being an older lady my insurance is very low.
There really are many failings, I would of been happy with a lifetime ban, but as the ban started when I went to prison most of that banned time I wasn't able to drive anyway which seems pointless to me, surely it should start on release? Or make the ban longer. I was supposed to take an extended driving test, when I mentioned this on booking my test I was told there was no record of this so it wasn't needed. I did it anyway just so there could be no comeback. Also the 5 year thing on insurance is ridiculous as I e never even had to disclose the information.
It's just all so backwards to me?
Thank you, I think when people find out you've been to prison there's an instant stigma attached. I was just a normal mum, never known to police, I made a stupid unforgivable decision and wrecked many lives in the process, including my own family. I struggle to live with what I've done, I think about him constantly, he is always in my thoughts. I never knew him, but found out as much as I could and everything I do I wonder if he liked would of liked that, would he like this song, did he eat this food, would he like this film. He will always be a part of me but for the most devastating reasons. I like to remember him because it causes me so much hurt and I feel that's the least I deserve, and he deserves to never be forgotten.

Sorry that was so long. Sometimes when I start I can't stop

I lost someone in my life due to the exact same situation as OP's friend's accident. His family were devastated, broken in some ways. Worse was one of their kids had severe developmental delays and couldn't understand, so kept asking his mum "When is Daddy coming back?" multiple times a day.

The people in the other car were airlifted to hospital and survived.

My friend was the driver in OPs friend's place.

In cases like this I think a lifetime driving ban should be implemented. Not prison the 2 years ban. Prison won't make anyone a better driver but a lifetime ban gets them a lifetime punishment and the guarantee they can't carelessly kill people anymore that's
In cases where it's 100% error rather than due to drinking, mobile usage, distraction, drugs etc.

I can guarantee this ladies child will be the one who suffers long term and I don't think punishing a child that way is acceptable.

If it was my teenager who’d been mown down I would say the exact same thing.

It would be horrendous but revenge in the form of prison is not the answer. It wouldn’t bring back my beloved child.

Anyone with a conscience will serve a life sentence anyway.

It’s very rare to be given a prison sentence for killing with a car

Locking someone up for a genuine accident makes no sense, especially when plenty of people get community service for intentional violence like gbh. If you drive while texting or after drinking then the sentence should be tougher imo as you have made a conscious decision to drive recklessly.

God what a completely shit situation for all.

I think of myself as a careful considerate driver, but I’m all too aware realistically we all mess up from time to time. Get things wrong, misjudge something or come across a complete idiot on the road who may cause us to take evasive action which could have implications. I had roadworks by work, the signs hid cars for 6 seconds. That’s a long time you could miss someone.

As well as sympathy for the deceased’s family, I wish your friend well and peace.

@brokensouls76 - I think that your posts on here have been amazing, and show you very clearly as a decent person who made a terrible mistake, and who has accepted responsibility for what happened. I respect you a lot for that.

@chocolatekimmy - if I were your friend, I would tell the children what happened when she was hurt - that she was responsible for the accident and that someone was killed (in an age appropriate manner). She should then explain that, when grown ups break the law, they have to face the consequences - I’m sure they will understand the concept of consequences when you break a rule or do something naughty.

From that, she can lead onto the fact that she has been to court and been found guilty, and that she doesn’t yet know what the consequence/punishment will be, but it might mean prison.

It will be a difficult conversation to have, but I think it is better to have it sooner rather than later (before they hear it another way - at school, perhaps, as PPs have said - and in a much less kind and tactful way). I also think it is better that they know there is a risk that she might be going to prison ahead of her court date - if they only found out when she didn’t come home, that would be an awful shock.

OP your friend needs to tell her children sooner rather than later but in the context of the accident and the outcome, regardless of whether she goes to prison or not.

They absolutely will find out, especially the 11year old.

Last year the dad of a friend of DSs from school was arrested for a serious crime and most of the parents all knew before it was in the local paper.

Our kids were 11 and they all knew and were talking about it at school!

I discussed it with DS and explained that this boy was going to need his friends because it was very likely his dad would be going to prison for a long time (in the end his sentence was 8 years but he is being deported on release too)

The kids did us all proud and rallied round their friend, who openly talks about it with them which I think is a good thing.

Your friends DC will need this, not to hear it on the playground from Sally who heard her mum gossiping with Janes mum.

I don't see how sending her to prison in these circumstances is in anyone's best interests. It doesn't act as a deterrent because it wasn't something she planned or meant to happen and she hadn't been drinking. She should be banned from driving for a substantial time and made to take some lessons including night driving, advanced driving lessons etc before she is able to drive again and have a hefty fine with a suspended sentence but custody won't help anyone. it was a terrible accident and It's tragic for everyone concerned.
And for PP who say if it was their close family member they would want the driver to be jailed. I have lost a close family member because of a reckless driver who I think may have also been drinking. . And I can't even remember what happened to the driver. He may have been jailed for a short time but I was too grief stricken to even think about him. And when I did banning him from driving was more important to me.

That's a brilliant point @nonnymum. When my relative was killed on the road, like you, i couldn't have cared less who was responsible. I was too busy being utterly devastated that he was dead. I still don't really care if someone else was involved. Locking them up won't bring him back. Stopping the individual driving would be more than enough for me.

From those custody guidelines:

2) Is it unavoidable that a sentence of imprisonment be imposed?

Passing the custody threshold does not mean that a custodial sentence should be deemed inevitable. Custody should not be imposed where a community order could provide sufficient restriction on an offender’s liberty (by way of punishment) while addressing the rehabilitation of the offender to prevent future crime.
For offenders on the cusp of custody, imprisonment should not be imposed where there would be an impact on dependants which would make a custodial sentence disproportionate to achieving the aims of sentencing.

She should prepare her children for the possibility of prison before she goes to court. There will be a magistrates hearing first which will go to Crown next, If she pleads guilty at Crown she could well be sentenced on the same day and not go home.

A custodial sentence for death by dangerous driving is pretty much a definite but the question is whether it will be a suspended sentence or not.

If she doesn’t have a solicitor I would recommend getting one, so that any mitigation can be put as well as possible. They may also be able to explore if there is a possibility of changing the charge to death by careless driving.

The reason she hasn’t been disqualified from driving yet is because she is not yet convicted.

Try this website
www.nicco.org.uk
They have got loads of resources for different age groups and links to support organisations.

@LooseleafTea he'd had all the training just no licence (and so I'm sure insurance affected etc)

@GiveHerHellFromUs yes first (and to date) only offence.

15 years later he got a job as a driver so everything ok in the long run.

Extra training (advanced driver, first aid etc)

Black men often get harder sentencing