Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Creative writing

Whether you enjoy writing sci-fi, fantasy or fiction, join our Creative Writing forum to meet others who love to write.

Questions for those of you that write long forms of fiction (i.e novellas, novels)

16 replies

artifarti · 16/04/2010 20:02

I have been writing for a year or so now. I write short stories (

OP posts:
SethStarkaddersMum · 16/04/2010 20:08

obviously it's different for everyone and depends on what works for you.... apparently Arthur Ransome wrote the Swallows and Amazons books by doing a very detailed synopsis and then writing the chapters in order of how easy they seemed! I can't imagine doing that.
One thing I have learnt is that for me it is fatal to write the end in advance because then I never bother to get there properly! Whereas if I am dying to reach that point it motivates me to keep on.
I generally have the shape in my head but plan in detail one chapter ahead.
But I am no expert and have not published a novel.

SethStarkaddersMum · 16/04/2010 20:09

apparently when Evelyn Waugh was writing his earlier books he didn't have a plan at all, just created some characters and set them going to see what they would do

2Eliza2 · 16/04/2010 20:13

I'm a novelist. This is how I do it. Warning: it is messy and not necessarily the best way for anyone else to proceed!

With just a few notes to guide me, I write a very rough first draft, stopping when I get to about 60,000 words. I then read what I have, brainstorm it with other writer friends, and then produce a more detailed synopsis. Often I will then rekey the first draft, too.

If I do the detailed synopsis first it kills the book for me. I feel as if I've already written it and it is dull. I wish it wasn't like this but it is.

artifarti · 17/04/2010 10:19

Thank you both, that's really interesting. I don't think I will plump for Waugh's way (!) but I can see what you mean 2Eliza2 about planning too much ruining the story - do you plan the characters before? I have heard people say that you need to work out who they, where they went to school, what they like for breakfast...that sounds so dull to me!

OP posts:
abride · 17/04/2010 10:37

No--I don't do that, artifarti, not beyond the basic details. I like the characters to reveal themselves to me through their thoughts and deeds. Sometimes it's fun to be surprised by their reactions. Sometimes it's a pain in the proverbial, if it means a plot line needs changing.

One thing I did do last time was construct a family tree with dates of birth, marriage, etc, to save problems for the copy editor and me later on, when we realise people are different ages through the novel.

2Eliza2 · 17/04/2010 10:39

Artifarti--I don't plan too much. I prefer to do what abride says above: let them expose themselves. It's more rewarding that way, if riskier, if you see what I mean.

But other writers would have different ways of doing things that work well for them. Unlike abride I don't construct family trees, etc, though perhaps I should!

SethStarkaddersMum · 17/04/2010 11:49

Artifarti - the advice to know every detail about the characters sounds like the sort of thing you read in 'how to write a novel' books which also tell you stuff like 'make sure your characters are consistent - it is very distracting if your hero hates broccoli on p.14 and hates it on p.107'.

I realised (after reading the John Sutherland books on puzzles in classic fiction, actually) that sometimes it is good to leave certain things up in the air or sort of soft focus. (I bet Stella Gibbons didn't know what it was Aunt Ada Doom saw in the woodshed.)

SethStarkaddersMum · 17/04/2010 11:50

doh. 'loves' it on p.107 I mean....

artifarti · 19/04/2010 07:08

I browsed some 'How to...' books the other day and they were full of lists and rules - make sure you have done x by Chapter 3; whatever you do, don't introduce more than 7 characters before Chapter 4 etc. It just seemed to suck all the fun out of writing!

OP posts:
theyoungvisiter · 19/04/2010 07:41

I write (only for fun) and generally I start with an idea, write my way into the characters (getting to know them and the setting), and then set them on their journey.

It's much like a real journey in that I usually know a few stopping off points along the way, and have a vague notion of whereabouts the ending it will be, but I don't know the exact route or what it will all look like, what will happen along the way.

Sometimes I get lost or hit a dead end and have to turn back to an earlier point and restart. Sometimes I go on a diversion and it's unexpected and completely wonderful.

Sometimes it peters out completely and that's my loss - it goes in the bottom drawer.

At the end I go back and redraft and often lose the first few "getting to know you" pages.

I always write chronologically (though I sometimes rearrange slightly afterwards) but for me it would be too weird to do it any other way, as the character development would be all out of wack if I wrote later pieces first.

However as others have said, I think there are as many ways to write as there are writers! Someone (might have been Stephenie Meyer?) apparently writes all the fun scenes first and then goes back and fills in the gaps. In an interview they likened this to eating the nice bits of your meal first then eating the vegetables!

Someone else (might have been Hilary Mantel about Wolf Hall?) said that she wrote just vignettes in no order, then later stitched some of them together into the novel, some didn't go in at all.

Arthur Ransom's method sounds terrifying! For me a really detailed synopsis would kill the fun - if I know what happens, why travel the journey? There needs to be some suspense for me otherwise I won't care enough to keep going. But that's just me.

Good luck - I would recommend just pitching in and seeing what happens, and if it doesn't come together that doesn't necessarily mean it's your fault, sometimes an idea just won't sustain 100k and it can be hard to tell that at the outset.

theyoungvisiter · 19/04/2010 07:44

Re the how to books, I think they are generally for people writing pretty commercial fiction.

They might be more useful to read at the editing stage, that way you can shape the raw material into something that fits at least some of the rules (the ones that chime with you).

Stephen King's On Writing is good and not too prescriptive, if you fancy reading something before you start. It's not so much a "how to", more a "how does he"

theyoungvisiter · 19/04/2010 07:46

Oh and I should add to my last - I have never read a Stephen King and am not into that kind of literature at ALL, but that doesn't matter. It's not about his particular genre, but more about writing in general. And it's excellently written.

Just take the industry info with a pinch of salt as it's very American and not up to date.

artifarti · 21/04/2010 19:47

Thank you theyoungvisiter. Another really interesting perspective.

I think I am just going to have to bite the bullet and get on with it...

OP posts:
NotAnotherNewNappy · 17/10/2010 20:27

Hiya artifarit

I recently finished my first novel - it's 110 thousand words. I felt exactly like you before I started it, then I developed my own little system and the words flew by.

I plan the scenes (and add detail as I think of it, not necessarily in chronological order) then keep track of everything on a spreadsheet so that I can reference things and feel more in control of the narritive. Bit more info here: jessicabull.wordpress.com/2010/08/19/erotic-typewriter-girl/

Good luck Grin

Eleison · 17/10/2010 20:34

Wow, this is all very interesting and helpful. Good to know there are so many fiction writers out there. I've only written very short stories before and have exactly the OP's concerns and questions about plotting.

artifarti · 18/10/2010 19:45

Thanks NotAnother - still haven't got round to writing my novel but have finished a radio drama recently - which was much longer and more complex than anything to date so I'm getting there!

I read the Stephen King book recommended above, which was great. I also have another recommendation (yet to read)called How to Write a Novel by John Braine (long dead; he wrote Room at the Top). Will report back...

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page