so, creative writing classes...are they just guff or .......

[scaryfucker]

has anyone seriously ended up making a living from writing after attending such a course ? (eventually, I don't mean straight away)

be gentle with me...

My friend has.
He hasn't made a fortune, but a living.
Must say htough that his course was a phd...
He did start off going to a small informal one though.

Oh, a lot of them are guff though. Depends who is running it and who attends.

I don't think many creative writing courses set out to let you make your living from writing; most of them aim just to make your writing better. (This poss not true of the MAs, but most people seem to go on from those to teach creative writing. It's like pyramid selling for the middle classes)

But a good class can be lifechanging, a bad one is dull, or worse, disheartening and irritating. I've been through the whole range...

I've done two so far, found both of them reasonably useful. No sign of anything saleable, but then, creative writing as a living is a pretty tricky thing to manage.

I have been writing fiction for about seven years and was only published within the last eighteen months. Although I had what was considered to be a fairly 'good' first year, I will continue to need my day-job for the foreseeable future.

Fortunately the day-job doesn't take up too much time and can be done from home. I am soooo glad I have it and don't have to rely on what can be a very precarious career.

The 'average' novelist in the UK probably earns around seven thousand pounds a year or less. (I know it was five thousand about three or four years ago so I've given that amount a probably over-generous hike for 2008). There are people who earn a lot more than this but they tend to stick in one's memory because they are rare creatures!

I've heard good things about Arven (sp?) from my BIL.

UQD could give good advice here as I believe he teaches creative writing?

The MA from East Anglia consistently 'discovers' new writers, and Sally Nicholls who wrote Ways to Live Forever was 'discovered' during her MA at Bath Uni.
Many writers rave about Arvon courses but they won't set you up, so to speak, they will just help hone your skills.
I must admit that I sometimes feel CW courses are a way of putting off the inevitable ie sitting down and writing. I haven't done any myself.
I do make a good living from my writing but 2E2 is correct in that most authors don't - though that should certainly not stop you.

My fil was a jobbing writer, ie made a (very) lucrative living out of writing. He was scathing about courses, but then again was known to be scathing about an awful lot.

Agree it depends who the teacher is, who attends, and how much committment/enthusiasm/talent/time is combined with attending one.

I did CW at uni, then became a teacher of Creative Writing- which is £25 an hour. So I've made a living from it.

The course I teach at the moment is for people who want to learn to write better as a hobby. But I do teach another course, which is advanced, which helps people to write to get published. A lot of people like to use this course to improve their article-writing abilities as writing articles for magazines makes money and is an easy way to start.

I'm enjoying learning how to put things together more effectively. I was very very sceptical at first, but it's good to get feedback and a bit of help with structure.

I sold a couple of (very) small pieces (very) cheaply when on a creative writing course years ago. I mostly write poetry though, which is never going to make me rich! The classes are good for honing your skills though and giving you a reason to write and a deadline to work to; also for helping you to find out about competitions (especially small press stuff), or about "open mike" sessions etc, if that's what you're into (I'm not; the idea fills me with terror!). The Arvon Foundation are very good indeed but again, not really about making money but about developing your skills / output.

Coming to this late - sorry.

I've led creative writing classes and mentored writers at all levels, from Y2 kids up to adults. It really depends what you want to get out of it. You can't "put" talent there, but you can help people to find their voice and make the most of the talent they do have.

With young people and adults, you can keep them informed about opportunities for competitions, magazine writing, etc., and show them how to put together a proposal for an agent.

Some parallels:

You can teach someone to play the violin. Nobody denies this. But people don't go to violin classes expecting to come out after two years playing like Nigel Kennedy.

You can teach people to draw and paint, unless they have absolutely no talent for it. But again, they wouldn't expect to do an evening class for a few years and exhibit in the Tate.

And yet people often seem to think creative writing classes should be some kind of ticket to writing fame and fortune - when even moderately successful writers don't have fame and fortune. Earning a living from writing alone is something very few people do.

For that reason, I bristle a little at the somewhat chippy tone of the OP!

I took a creative writing course with the OU earlier this year. It was great fun (apart from one arrogant person who thought he knew it all) and I got lots of good feedback and a good pass rate.

It was something to do really because since graduating from University with a Journalism degree I haven't had a job. Took a digital photography course with my Dad on the OU as well which was much more fun, and I got a 1st which my Dad was very jealous of.

With the OU CW course you get to write lots of little paragraphs before writing a full blown short story. Personally I think that could have been a longer story, but some people struggled with that.

As for making a living from writing, well I'm trying to find inspiration on that front.

"You write about what you know." They say so all I can write about is football and being a Dad of 3 really.

Oooh, UQD, I love it when you bristle

Ime, classes can be good for learning some of the nuts and bolts of writing, can be inspiring, can impose deadlines which can kick-start you, but ultimately, wot UQD said.

The average writer now earns £4,000 a year according to the Guardian, so this answer is: probably not.