Advice on writing fantasy? Never done it before, only ever realistic historical

[Historyguy]

I’m writing a pirate fantasy novel. It wasn’t even supposed to BE fantasy. But I was forced to change a lot of the book mainly because our hero was otherwise just a greedy, unlikeable prick. He still starts out that way, but thanks to a magic relic from Atlantis which I’ve inserted, he will come to forgo his old ways.

I typically don’t like “magic items” which is why I didn’t intend on writing fantasy, but if it’s just standard pirate treasure - then his motive starts and ends at greed.

What I need to know is if:

1. Atlantis is overdone, I figured I should use something well-known
2. Your thoughts on magic being present on earth with real historical figures. It will of course not be high in magic at all because, well, Earth isn’t magic. But I could see why some wouldn’t like a fantasy book that takes place in the real world.

I think if you're using magic then it needs to he inserted throughout the book. No issue with it just being there on normal Earth as just a slightly different world but it obviously has implications all over the place.
Rather than rough shedding in a random magical relic to make your guy alinto a good guy, which makes it sound like a lazy effort, I think you need to genuinely explore what makes him not greedy / something more. Or maybe he is just greedy but there's also a good side to him. Another character, a revelation, a death, a love. All those things can change someone better than a random magic ring

I hate plagiarists and I learned the hard way they are on every corner in internet spaces like this.

I’m describing a loosely as I can the main elements of the story. The item doesn’t magically turn him “good.” But what he chooses to do with the item, that’s what becomes important.

All I'm saying is if you put magic in, put it in throughout. Otherwise it's just about obvious plot device. Even just a background chapter on some magical artefacts lost some time ago or something. But yes I'm happy to read fantasy set in the real world. Just think of Good Omens. Perfectly normal London.

I absolutely think you can do magic in the normal everyday world, think the TV show Charmed.

Do you read fantasy? I agree with pp saying it needs to have the "magic" throughout, even if it's set in the otherwise real world. If you read the back cover blurb for most fantasy the premise is completely ludicrous (I say this with love! I enjoy fantasy!) but the stories work because the fantastical elements are an integral part of that world.
I understand, and completely respect, your desire to be vague, but from what you've written I'm struggling to see a character arc that can only be explored/explained/initiated through the existence of some magical item. In many fantasy books the magical items themselves aren't the important bits. They're just a MacGuffin that allows the emotional journey of the character and, therefore, could be anything. Basically, does your special treasure have to be magical, or can it just be real-world special?

Have you read much fantasy?

Oh, also! You could have an item that's considered magical within the historical context, even though we know magic isn't real and isn't really going to do anything. It could be enough for the characters to consider the item magical?

Edited to add: to your second question, yes, I'd feel Atlantis is overdone. I'm sorry, but if I found an author who normally does historical fiction suddenly pivoting to fantasy, I'd role my eyes a little if it turned out to include atlantis. There are bound to be more interesting mythologies out there to explore.

Lotr but that’s it

Harry Potter has magic and fantasy in London.

Your thoughts on magic being present on earth with real historical figures. It will of course not be high in magic at all because, well, Earth isn’t magic. But I could see why some wouldn’t like a fantasy book that takes place in the real world.

Look at a lot of the King Arthur fantasies for this. They are often set in the "real but historical" world but then you have the magic.

I'd suggest reading "Over Sea Under Stone" by Susan Cooper for an idea how you can mix light magic in with the real world. (the other books are good too, but heavier on the magic element).
Most of the story is simply an adventure quest. But there is this hidden magic behind it all.

Then my first piece of advice to you is to read A LOT more before trying to write your own fantasy novel.

I think I would find it annoying if this was the only magical element in the whole book. Especially if it wasn’t the main plot point (for example the book isn’t about his journey to discover this magical object)

you absolutely can have fantasy books set in earth. It’s called low fantasy. Lots of books and tv shows do this. Harry Potter for example is set on earth and includes lots of familiar settings. Charmed is an example of a tv show that does this too as pp have said.

This. You can’t write in a genre without being well-read in it, and LOTR is no use as a model for what you’re planning — you both need to see the possibilities, how other writers have handled inserting fantasy elements in a ‘real world’ setting, and to make sure you’re not writing something that’s already been done a dozen times.

Agreeing with PPs but with perhaps a slightly different slant. I'm a fan of magical realism - best known from South American literature, but what I find most engaging is that many (maybe even most) people the world over actually do live real life with 'magic'. They observe rituals designed to channel fate, gods or spirits; they have lucky and unlucky objects; avoid ladders or cracks in the pavement; see 'signs'; consult mediums and tarot readers, have their horoscopes done; all kinds of magical stuff, all day, every day!

My interest in this revolves around the psychology. It also means you don't need to wrangle in a singular Atlantis-linked event to move your character, just work the magical/psychological into his development and you'll find him changing quite naturally. As you say you write historical realism, you must surely be familiar with this very significant aspect of times gone by. Make friends with it.

Atlantis: no! It screams "I needed an excuse" ... unless the entire premise is the search for Atlantis, which I think you would have mentioned.

What if he thinks it’s magic, but isn’t sure - so therefore can never be sure if his behaviour change is forced or natural?

atlantis probably is overdone. There will be cliches you aren’t even aware of if you don’t read fantasy. But that isn’t to say someone I won’t publish a compelling Atlantis novel next year. You just don’t know.

Have a look at LiveShip Traders by Robin Hobb if you want to see how to craft a terrible pirate with a brilliant backstory. It will help give your character depth, and motivation towards their goals.

Many fantasy stories take place on earth.

It could be a magic free world, he discovers something while pirating which could lead to the discovery of magic. But you need to tie in plot and character arc. He could use the relic to do something terrible, and something makes him question himself?

No-one's going to steal your idea.

Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell brilliantly inserts magic into the real world, and real history. If you haven't tread that then you should.

The main thing coming into my mind is how did you get a gig like this???😁

I thought writers were passionate about their story, determined to get it out in to the world despite years of writing and rewriting, lots of hardship and knock backs, and eventually getting published when they are just about to die of the hunger.
This sounds like you are writing to a prescription for someone else, and you are going to get published regardless? I’m jealous and so so interested!!!

Can I ask if it’s a children’s book or what age are you aiming it at?

I also think I should start reading fantasy. This thread is a good read in itself