Writing group feedback advice - so frustrating

[Cerialkiller]

Hi everyone. Would love some discussion about being effective in a writing group, taking/giving feedback. Dos and donts.

I'm having a hard time with one member of my group and giving her feedback and she seems not to be understanding me, it maybe she's just so wedded to her story she can't change it.

It's so frustrating that I just wrote out a scene of her story 'fixing it' but I know that it would be completely out of order to actually show it to her to illustrate what I mean. She's a great writer but has this blind spot.

She has her main character arrived injured into the care of a new pov character. The new character sees MC and basically has a change of heart on the spot. Realises they have taken the wrong path in life etc. to make matters worse this is told via internal thoughts rather then demonstrated, meanwhile MC is unconscious.

I've told my friend...
The change of heart is too fast, we also don't see any of the character BEFORE the change of heart so there is no character arc. The MC is also completely passive in the scene and wouldn't it be more interesting if interactions between the two causes the change rather then this love at first site thing.

I don't know what to do. Can I do anything?
I feel like she is getting annoyed with me but she keeps making tiny changes when there's this big glaring problem.

Is it best that I step back from commenting at let someone else have a go? This is her dream book, her baby and i want to help!!

OP, give the advice once, then step back. If you've already given it once, don't give it again til asked.

I edit and support a lot of writers as part of my job. You can only give your advice, it is then up the person what they take from it or whether they respond. I would only insist if it was to mess up their professional qualification; beyond that, it's not your role to fix this.

Focus on your own writing; it's always easier to fix other people's than your own.

Agree it's easy to critique others haha.

Unfortunately we have a monthly workshop together and she is asking to review this section every time she edits it. I'm not the only one who has similar feed back so I don't think it's just my personal taste at least.

Her MC has a bit of a Gary stu problem so I might go down that route. Both professional authors who run the group have raised this so perhaps I can hide in their shadow....

I think I would pull my 'thoughtful' face, or say 'how interesting' when she yet again fails to adapt anything, but if there's two leaders of the group, I'd leave it to them. Perhaps they can persuade her to listen, perhaps not. Being able to take, absorb and respond to critique is hard to do but usually marks out the better authors, perhaps it's just not her destiny to publish this book, sad though that is.

She's wedded to this and will never change it unless held at gunpoint. It's her darling that she can't kill. I'd leave her to it.

I'm an editor and author.

The problem is that even if she changes that one scene it's not going to make the book a great book anyway. She would need extensive help and support and she's not taking it from published authors or from the readers and writers in the group. Just limit yourself to what's reasonable for you.

Set aside a period of time e.g. an hour to edit it and after that it's up to her. There's no editor in the world who will spend hour after hour on one section for little reward.

Thanks everyone. Lots of wisdom here. I think you are telling me what I knew deep down.

I'm a terrible liar but if I fail to get though after our session tomorrow then I will just have to suggest that its good enough. I will try to speak first and hope that emboldens everyone else to make suggestions. I do think everyone is trying to be too nice at times.

You don't need to lie and suggest it's 'good enough'. Just give the shit sandwich of something you like about the section (ideally something she's rewritten or changed since last time, but otherwise just something in general), then the main thing you think needs to be improved (and if it's the same issue as last time then that's fine) and then finish up by saying something genuinely encouraging that is good about her writing.
Often what a writing group/ beta reader or the like are good at pointing out is what is not working. However they're not always reliable at pointing out how to fix it - and that's not what they need to do anyway - that's down to the writer to go away and ponder.
It might also be worth having a chat with the organisers about whether the group needs to dissuade the resubmission of the same section of a MS multiple times. It doesn't sound very fruitful for any of you.

I think I would say 'I don't think I have much to add on what I said last time, which was XYZ' and then make it very brief, I agree with the editor that said if people don't take feedback on, you are essentially wasting your own energy.

We have an official group run by published authors who obviously give great advice and then we have our unofficial group which is just four of us trying to write our novels and supporting each other.

Yes I often use the sandwich approach. She's a pretty good writer and i'm enjoying the story, her pacing, dialogue and character interactions are great but she seems to be struggling to understand what i'm talking about or (more likely) just being very unwilling to change anything significant. I get the feeling she is so wedded to her characters that she can't change them.

She is intimating a massive change of heart for one character like a 'wtf have i done with my life' moment.. Its like she is unwilling to show the character being unpleasant (so he can be shown to change) instead its all implied and 'told' to us in the characters head.

Thanks, this is good advice. I really have to kerb my instinct to 'fix' other people's work. It's not like i'm a professional myself so its really arrogant of me to even think i can but they keep asking me 😥. My own style is very different so it would be a completely different story.

I just find it really frustrating when character actions aren't justified or explained or they act in really unrealistic ways.