Is there even a little money in writing now?

[ARichSeamToMine]

Hi all
Wanted to pick the brains of writing MN

For background - in my early 30s, I had two novels that were about 2/3 written.

I pitched both to a couple of agencies who were quite impressed and one followed up a few months later asking if I had finished.

I hadn't. And life got in the way and I'm now 47. But I finally have time and hopefully headspace to write again.

But the publishing landscape has changed hugely. Tbh in my early 30s, I knew there was very little chance to earn side hustle money from it, but is that potential there any more?

I'm not one of these people who "has" to write because it's their passion. I mostly enjoyed it when I did it. But before I start planning to do it again, I'm wondering where people find revenue streams? I would take the self publishing route. I'm happy to do a lot of social media promotion but wouldn't want to go around speaking at events etc.

One of my novels is historical, and will still work. One agency suggested there were too many characters. I don't know if I agree, but commercially, I could split them into two novellas if that increases chances of making money.

I'm also seeing some mentions of people making money proof reading but I was under the impression that had been totally taken over by tech, so I am surprised by that.

All advice welcome.

My knowledge is only of literary fiction, not commercial, but although I know some well-established novelists who have a high profile, have won prizes and sell well, they all without exception have a job too — usually a university teaching gig, FT or fractional. The one person I know who now writes FT had a huge success with her eighth novel, but there was a lot of slogging en route, but she spent years writing around running a cookery school

I wouldn’t be considering it as a likely money-spinner in your position.

Sorry, I just saw you’re talking about self-publishing. Ignore me.

I'm just thinking of a little side hustle money from a hobby, not a full time income.

I'd talk to the publishers about it

I'd agree with PP that it's probably worth speaking to the publishers again.

DH writes novels that he self publishes on kindle. He spends about £50 a month on social media marketing and makes about £2-300 a month. He doesn't do any speaking or anything like that to promote it.
He loves writing and would do it anyway even if not selling the books. It would be his choice of hobby and way to relax. He does spend a lot of time monitoring the social media stuff though, tracking what has worked, how much each type of advert earns etc because he doesn't want to ever be spending money and not getting it back in sales. His regular full time job is in marketing so I guess that helps.

@CrispsandCheeseSandwich

That sounds great! £200 a month from a hobby is very worthwhile.
Is he active on Patreon or Substack or anything like that? I'd like to avoid TikTok but that's impossible to avoid now I think.

I'm not going to approach the publishers again, I'd definitely self publish.

I should probably find some free information about self publishing, sounds like a task for Christmas holidays.

if anyone has suggestions for resources, I'd love to hear them. My sources are out of date. I did some networking with small presses a few years ago and they have either gone bust or are being propped up by independent wealth.

Is there any value in blogging to direct people to your work, what does everyone think?

I’m completely clueless about publishing and was reluctant to comment at all! But before I even got to your comment about social media I was thinking that that’s where you need to go to make money, and it is specifically TikTok. You can get relevant information on there quicker and easier than Google/youtube/other platforms nowadays. When it comes to anything like books/movies/documentaries, I’ll go on TikTok and look up anything recommended in the genre I’m after. I screenshot whatever list that comes up and make my way through it. And I’m a 40yo woman btw

If you're on Facebook, join 20booksTo50K, it's basically the bible for making money in self-publishing.

You absolutely don't have to do any talks or signings or anything, can use pen names if you wish. Just need social media for self-promotions. Some people on there are making a lot of money, so yes, there is money in writing, some genres more than other, obviously not everyone makes big bucks but something's better than nothing, right?!

OP, aren’t you coming at this the wrong way round? Bluntly, you have two unfinished drafts from a decade and a half ago, when you appeared to be planning to try to get an agent and publish traditionally, but were inexperienced enough to query agencies with unfinished work.

Now you’re interested in making an extra income from self-publishing in a very different market. I know very little about self-publishing, but what I do know suggests that if you want an income, you need to produce exactly what a specific readership requires, and produce it frequently, if not in series then at least to a recognisable ‘brand’. The chances are you will need to study the market, start from scratch and write (and finish) a very different kind of novel, surely?

Have you thought about tutoring in creative writing?

thankyou @User13579367337 and @Itsjustbeach, that's helpful.

@Pillboxer "The chances are you will need to study the market, start from scratch and write (and finish) a very different kind of novel, surely?"

this is my plan, but historical fiction still sells, so much of what is already written can be used.

I pitched the unfinished novels informally because I met the publishers through a contact.

you sound strangely cross.

Thank you for the idea. Oddly enough, I did some workshops recently and the tutors asked me if I fancied tutoring! But I would feel a fraud teaching that without any kind of portfolio. Something to consider for the future though.

Ok, but you said they were agencies, not publishers, in your OP.

I’m not at all ‘cross’, just perplexed that you are talking about self-marketing and income streams without an actual product.

You are coming across as a twat tbh. Not everyone does everyone as a hobby or for fun. The op is clearly looking to make money out of this. When looking at financial investments or business models you look at the market first. You don’t spend time (years in this case), effort and money into a product and THEN start looking if you can make a profit from it. The op may not be willing to finish the books if they’re not profitable. She’s clearly stated that the books could be split (so basically partially rewritten) into novellas if they will sell better

My creative writing tutor did a creative writing course (probably 10), sells short stories to magazines and does creative writing tutoring. She was very good . My work took over so I wasn't able to continue with her due to work commitments but my pipe dream for retirement (10+ years away!) is to write, and to write short stories to enter to competitions and magazines in the meantime to build up experience and expertise. I loved doing those writing courses and have loved writing the stories ( I have a historical novel too but its a bit rambling I think). I have a few stories on my laptop that I've written but been too scared to send into the world!

In terms of which social media platform is best for promoting your work, I think choose one or two that you actually like, and focus hard on them. It’s pointless and a huge amount of work trying to amass a following and publish original content regularly on a platform you don’t even enjoy using when there are so many to choose from.

Thank you
In my normal work, I don't tend to see platforms as more or less enjoyable, just a means to an end really.

If anyone has suggestions about what they use, as a reader or a writer, I'd be pleased to hear them. As soon as Christmas is over, I will start looking into this. I'm off work between Christmas and New Year so have lots of time then.

Thank you.

I think the first thing is write and finish something and it may not be the one that works but it might - you just need to finish it. If you've caught onto an idea that is new and interesting and hooky, then hopefully (given you had agents interested in your ideas before) you will get onto the right path. I've had a traditional publishing deal via my agent and it is a pretty good sum of money for 2 books (paid in instalments is the norm), which allowed me to drop hours on the day job a little. Wasn't enough that I could drop work altogether but my hope if I can sell subsequent books, each advance might help me progressively move to full time writing. I know many authors who offer editorial or mentoring to novice writers (either directly from their own website because they have a name/brand) or via consultancies (Jericho/The Literary Consultancy/The Novelty/ Write Mentor) and that can be quite a good way to supplement if you had the time. PS I am 54 (started learning the craft at 48). Don't let your age hold your hopes back!

@bimblebird I think it's amazing that you've done so well, that's awesome

But as I said in my post, I'm not looking at trad publishing. I wouldn't even try and compete there.

You could look up The Creative Penn blog, that has some good jumping-off information for self-pub.

So regardless of whether you self-publish or get traditionally published, you need to do a hell of a lot of marketing if you want to make decent money. This is why so many authors decide to keep it a "hobby business" - they write for pleasure, any royalties are gravy.

In terms of what I've seen over the past couple of years for self-publishing:

• it's all about series: Romance, Fantasy, Crime are leading ones
• authors need to chase trends and tropes and write to market tastes
• investment in ads is critical (eg $4k spend to earn $6k in book sales)
• you need to publish multiple books per year (some Romance writers are supposedly writing two per month)

You really have to run it like a business and this may suck the joy out for you. It would for me. Plus I'm too lazy to write a book a month.

I really appreciate all the replies

I looked at it carefully over Christmas and decided not to do it for now. I don't enjoy it enough. If the day job gets quieter, and/or if life gets quieter, I might revisit, but for now I'll just see it as a hobby.

really appreciate the advice 🤗