Waiting on agents

[Hazelwood63]

Hello. I'm just looking for company on this long waiting game. Anyone else waiting to hear back from agents at the moment? I sent out five initial submissions at the end of January. So far I've received a really encouraging rejection and two requests for the full. Nothing from the other two so far. It's coming up to a month since I sent off the first full ms, and just over three weeks for the other one. Has anyone else waited over a month for a response to a full and been offered representation, or is it maybe time to think of moving on?

Thanks so much for the warning re the Cheshire Novel Prize @BecauseOfIndia. It's a timely reminder of how very particular competitions seem to be, and how they can really knock your confidence, even if agents are requesting full reads on the back of the same submission, as was my experience. You're so right when you say 'Listen to your instincts'! Otherwise we'll end up being pulled this way and that and risk losing the very heart of our stories.

I'm so grateful to have this thread, and 'How do You Stay Sane'. Really appreciate the company.

I've just had a rejection from one of the agents who had the full. All very complimentary but with no specific reason given as to why they've said no other than the usual 'didn't connect with it as much as we'd hoped to' kind of thing. Luckily, my head is so full of plans for a redraft of the novel that I'm nowhere near as bothered by the rejection as I might have been.
Tally so far:

1 full still out (not hopeful)
2 really lovely personalised rejections
2 yet to hear back (and probably won't)

My plan is to take another hard, long look at the book, tighten the plot, 'murder my darlings' as they say, and submit to another 6-8 agents after the London Book Fair is over and done with.

@Hazelwood63 ah, that's a shame sorry to hear that - although good that you are feeling inspired to make these changes. And I guess you never know what might happen with the submissions you are still waiting to hear back on. I agree, this thread is a welcome source of moral support - in real life not many people recognise the agony of the submission process!

@BecauseOfIndia thanks for the editor advice. You've basically articulated the reason I have never seriously considered this as an option - paying a lot for one person's subjective opinion! So, yes, think I'll continue to hold back on that - winning an editorial review in a competition sounds great though, I'd happily take that if I did not have to part with £2000....
Thanks also for the info on the Cheshire novel prize - I guess if they are offering a bit of feedback to every entry it's unlikely to be considered and of stellar quality.

I have a couple of Indie presses on my list to submit to - one local, which a friend told me about. Otherwise think I will
submit to a couple more agents now, to keep momentum after the recent rejection, then leave it until after London book fair as suggested .

That sounds a good plan @Dontrocktheboat and I think I'm with you on your decision re editorial services.

I have another rejection to announce, from the other agent who read the full. It was as expected, but just a little tough coming hard on the heels of the first one. Great feedback again, but, frustratingly, no constructive criticism. So here I am, back at square one. Up a ladder and then straight down a snake. Fun game, isn't it ...?

@Hazelwood63 just dropping in to say sorry about the rejections. Good that you're full of plans for the redraft though. Onwards...

Sorry to hear that @Hazelwood63 - guess we are doing well to at least get up the ladder in the first place, but it is still disheartening!
I am going to try to get on with some submissions today (once have stopped procrastinating).

Thank you@ElsieT23 and @Dontrocktheboat for your support.

A year ago I did an online course with two MFA Creative Writing teachers with the University of British Columbia. It looked at novel structure and outline. You go at your own pace with as much or as little involvement with the student community as you want. They offer a follow up course but I only did this first one. I've just dug out my notes on it and they're proving to be incredibly useful as I rethink some of my book. It's £243, which isn't nothing, I know, but is considerably cheaper than some editorial services, and puts the writer in full control of editing choices.
It's based on the classic three act structure, but offers so much more than that. In revisiting it now, with my novel completed, it's almost like it's giving me a grid to place over my story and showing me where I might be falling short.
Might not appeal to everyone, but I just wanted to share the info, as it's certainly helping me.
www.edx.org/course/how-to-write-a-novel-structure-outline

@Hazelwood63 Sorry to hear about the rejections, it's just devastating isn't it when the feedback is positive. One of mine said she couldn't fault my writing and that my book deserved to be published and widely read - it just wasn't right for her!

I too am rewriting again before any more subs. Have isolated the first 50 pages, as this seems to be what most agents request, and I am going over and over and over it - with laser precision! I'm finding it so much easier to 'kill my darlings' this time.

Regarding editors / comps etc, I did once read something about the people who offer those services and it said that usually they are writers who don't have a publishing deal themselves, so what authority do they have to help us get one? It suggested you look them up before paying for their services - and true enough, the woman who wrote my MS report last had a book published in 2013 (on Amazon with about 5 reviews, mostly negative!), and she doesn't currently have an agent. I also noticed that the person who runs the Cheshire prize (and I assume - gives the feedback) is a freelance editor, and again - doesn't appear to an agent and has never had a book published. I think we are all better off looking for honest beta readers frankly.

I thought this response by 'jae426' to a letter sent to Phillipa Perry was interesting and useful for perspective:

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/jul/04/ask-philippa-perry-i-am-an-unsuccessful-writer-how-can-i-escape-feelings-of-despair

(sort by recommended and s/he is the top comment)

"I commission books for a living, which means I read a lot of manuscripts, and reject 99.9% of them. Some of those 99.9% are actually pretty decent, but there's just something missing that means we fear it wouldn't stand a chance against the other 3,000 books published every single week, along with all the hundreds of thousands of existing books still in print and already on the shelves.... It's not really a trade secret to tell you the average book sells between 800 and 1,500 copies. And when you factor in that some authors (the tiniest minority conceivable) sell millions, that must mean there are tens of thousands of other authors selling fewer than 800..."

Obviously don't know s/he is in publishing but they sound convincing!

@Hazelwood63 thanks for the link - that course does look useful, and definitely more in my budget! Structuring is definitely my weakness, I tend to make a plan, get so far and then panic and start writing.... I definitely paid more attention to it for this novel, and did a lot of redrafting, but I still don't think it's something I've ever properly learned or been taught. I even did an MPhil, which helped me complete my first novel but even then there wasn't much focus on planning and structure - more critique in the group and tutorials with an allocated tutor. At the time I was just focused on having a deadline to complete something so I guess it was helpful from that point of view, but looking back was maybe somewhat lacking.

@BecauseOfIndia - very interesting point about people offering editing services. I think I will steer clear (realistically can't justify the expense anyway).

@ElsieT23 that article does put things in perspective - though also the statistics are really depressing! (On the other hand, I go into book shops and think 'how did all these books get published, when it seems like such an impossible thing to achieve' - even when getting lots of complimentary feedback like @Hazelwood63 describes, it still is no guarantee).

Thanks @BecauseOfIndia yes, it can be frustrating when there's no constructive criticism, but I hope all of us who are falling at the full read hurdle will eventually find a way past it and on to an offer of representation. If an agent calls in a full ms then that must mean they rate the writing and are interested by the premise. When they ultimately reject us it must be because, somehow, the promise of the early chapters isn't fulfilled or sustained throughout the story, and I think this can often be a nuts and bolts issue of narrative structure, a lack of development. Louise Doughty is a great believer in the basic three act structure. She doesn't advocate strict adherence to it, of course, but it can provide a useful checklist of points which can sometimes fix a problem.

I've just double checked the Cheshire Novel Prize again, and all entrants who don't make the long list will receive feedback from 'our panel of readers'. That's the dodgy bit for me, right there. However, if you do make it onto the long list (but not the shortlist) you receive feedback from the panel of judges, who, at a glance, are a pretty impressive bunch. Still haven't decided whether to go for it or not though ...

And thanks for the link @ElsieT23 I remember seeing that letter, but had missed the below the line comment.

@Hazelwood63 I didn't make the longlist for sure, so mine came from readers then. It was odd because you enter by genre and I put mine in literary fiction but it was clear from the feedback that they didn't understand my writing style.

Thanks for the feedback re: positive rejections, that does make sense. I've already re-written my ending after coming close to signing with an agent who ultimately felt let down by the third act. I've tried to make the ending more dramatic and commercial, but I also want to surprise readers, so it's hard to change it to meet 'expectations'.

@ElsieT23 That makes depressing reading! I suppose we all think just getting an agent and a publishing deal will fulfil our dreams. I can't imagine what it must be like if after all this the book is a massive flop.

Have had a look at the Cheshire novel prize and it's £27 to enter, which is a bit steep - I was also thinking about entering the Blue Pencil novel competition, which is £24, so does add up. I think I might try Blue Pencil as deadline is
end of May, so if have no joy with agents by then might be worth a go. I feel somewhat warned off the Cheshire one from reading these posts and hearing about your experience anyway, @BecauseOfIndia!

I think the problem with novel writing is it's so all or nothing - eg someone who likes to paint and has some talent can get their work hung in local cafes/ shops (at least around here!) and people will admire it for a few seconds and maybe even think about buying something, whereas a novel requires several hours of investment from readers, it's much harder to find an outlet without marketing behind it and the validation of those who are considered to know about such things ..... not sure what I'm trying to say really! I know there is the self publishing route, but that does require a lot of effort, cost and self-belief (self-delusion?) to do properly....

Has anyone had any success with short stories? I've tended to focus most of my efforts on 'the novel' as have limited time to fit in with work and childcare. I've written the odd short piece and had a couple of things published but nowhere impressive. Thinking about maybe trying a few more while I decide whether embarking on novel number 3 is worth the agony.

I've just read something in the paper (a book review) that might resonate with some of us here who are trying to hook an agent. It was basically trashing a debut author's novel, saying it was really poorly written and he says:

'It's a typical example of what I call "the elevator pitch novel". These are novels that appeal to literary agents and publishers because they tick certain boxes that can guarantee a degree of sympathetic engagement: the premise is everything, the execution an afterthought.'

How depressing! There's no hope for my novel then, as I've always placed the quality of the writing above all else. I also fear for the impact this is having on publishing, so many books these days seem to be the same (if you like that, you'll like this...) I find myself going back to older books just to get a decent read!

Don't be downhearted @BecauseOfIndia . Your writing has led agents to request your full ms, so good writing certainly counts for something. There will always be 'elevator pitch' novels out there, and there will be people who want to read them, but many of the agents I research say they are looking for upmarket/book club fiction which I define as a good commercial story beautifully told. Think Jessie Burton, Harriet Lane, Louise Doughty etc. At the other extreme to the 'elevator pitch' novel there are the pure literary novels whose rave reviews may not always translate into decent sales figures. I think most of us on here, especially those of us in the full read club, are somewhere between the two. But certainly, by all accounts, 'story' is now just as important as the quality of the prose, and more so, for some markets. Just depends what you're aiming for.

@Dontrocktheboat I've only written one short story, submitted it to a competition, didn't get anywhere, and sort of drifted back to novel writing, but it's certainly worth pursuing, especially if you've had some success with the form. George Saunders' Story Club might be of interest.

Seems unfair for the review to focus on debuts!

I’m ‘reading my genre’ at the moment (contemporary romance) and I’m astonished at how bad some of the writing is from very commercially successful writers. (I appreciate this is a bit rich from someone who hasn’t managed to write 1 novel yet). I honestly can’t imagine them being published if they were debuts as opposed to a brand.

1 writer constantly refers to her MMC as ‘chuckling’. He’s meant to be Spanish but has the speech patterns of a native American English speaker. Another writer has 3 FMCs but without their names you can’t tell from their dialogue who is speaking. A third massive writer has a MMC from rural Britain who moves to London and is AMAZED by how busy it is, finds everyone unfriendly. Cliche. Yawn. Cliche.

I wish I had time to do an experiment - type up the first 3 chapters of these books and submit to agents to see what gets interest (though obviously not actually plagiarise them!)

I suspect for all the claims of agents to want ‘bold voices’ etc (have you noticed they all use the same slightly odd phrasing) publishing is a business and they mostly go with what is likely to sell.

That last bit wasn’t clear: obviously agents go with what will sell but what I mean is I suspect this rather than fabulous writing is the clincher.

Hello,
Please can I join you guys? I submitted to 5 agents in November and had 2 rejections and 3 tumbleweed silences! Submitted to 4 more agents and 1 independent publisher a few weeks ago. Currently preparing to send out to 5 more this week before leaving it a while with the LBF coming up.
Am trying to think resilient, positive thoughts, but it's not easy, is it?

Thanks @Hazelwood63 will have a look at the story club - I've only really had the odd idea for a short story which I've followed through, and probably don't read enough of them either, though I do read some. Writing a novel has always been my main focus, just in a bit of a hiatus at moment so wondering what to do.

Welcome @MrsWsMusings - what genre are you writing in? I can sympathise with the radio silence, as I have heard nothing from my recent submissions - think I have 3 outstanding. It is disheartening to hear nothing at all, almost worse than rejection. When I submitted a few years ago, I think I did hear back from most of not all (mainly rejections, 2 requests for full at that time) so wondering if they are even more swamped now - I did hear that lots of people have written their novels during lockdown so agents are receiving even more submissions! Hope we all hear something at least soon!

Hi all, jumping in here as I'm in the same boat as many of you - started querying my novel late last year in small batches and currently have two fulls out (and one rejected last week, with lots of compliments anbout the writing but ultimately reservations about the subject matter). The agency that seemed most interested has had the full MS for about six weeks now so I'm starting to lose hope there :( And haven't heard anything from the third one in several weeks either.

It's not my first rodeo - have queried two in the past with a few full requests but ultimately no success - so I know how long everything tends to take, but it's hard to remain patient... This one was a runner-up in a novel competition so really hoped it had a good shot at getting agent interest. Not giving up yet anyway!

@Dontrocktheboat My genre is commercial women's fiction. I actually had a rejection yesterday from one of the agents I submitted to in November, so I think that takes my total to: 3 Nos, 2 haven't heard from November, and 5 more recent ones that have gone out within the last month. I feel like my covering letters are improving over time, or at least, they're starting to feel more like me. It's very difficult when you don't get any feedback though (and I totally understand why agents don't have time for that!) but you find yourself wondering whether it's your opening chapters, your synopsis, your general style or some combination thereof!

At this point, anyone just asking for the full MS would result in a great deal of rejoicing at this end 😂

I hope you hear back (positively) from your outstanding queries soon.

@AppropriateAdult Best of luck to you too! Sounds promising.

Hi @AppropriateAdult - think I recognise your name from one of the other threads. Sounds positive to have 2 full requests but still frustrating in equal measure... this is my second time querying, and am definitely experiencing a feeling of 'so near yet so far' with it all.

Still not had any response from the 3 more I have sent out since the full - though am wondering if response times are slow at moment, given you have just had a response from one sent in November @MrsWsMusings... also may be influenced by London book fair approaching. I have submitted another query to a local independent press which has won some awards (thought this was worth a go as my novel has in part a local setting). So 4 queries out in total now but not holding my breath.

Anyone else got any news?

Welcome @MrsWsMusings Threads like this one certainly help to keep us all sane as we endure the seemingly endless process of querying agents, and yes, like you, I feel my cover letter has improved with time, as has my pitch and my understanding of what makes a good opening chapter. Luckily, I find the art and craft of writing endlessly fascinating, but after my recent experience of full reads followed by rejections, I have a way to go yet.

Hi @AppropriateAdult I recognise your name too from my lurking on other CW threads. Exciting to have two fulls out, but I know that feeling so well, of initial excitement gradually giving way to resignation. It's great that the rejections were complimentary, great too that they let you know the reason for it. I was left none the wiser. Praise is all very nice, but what I really wanted was constructive criticism. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

No news here. I sent out to 5 agents. One extremely nice rejection, two full reads with initially very strong interest and then rejections, and the other two ... Don't think I'll hear back.
I've stepped off the submissions treadmill for a while and am rethinking my novel, simplifying the storyline, and will resubmit when I'm more certain of what I'm offering.

I found this article by Harriet Tyce rather cheering.
https://www.thenovelry.com/blog/harriet-tyce

Thanks @Hazelwood63 , that article is probably just what I needed to read today! I started reading a new book a few days ago and by the end of the first chapter I felt like I had an epiphany as to why mine isn't getting anywhere. I don't know if I can / should change my MS, especially as I'm just going on a hunch, but it's made me think (even!) more about what exactly I'm hoping to achieve here. Nothing like a bit of navel gazing! The article was a timely reminder of how long and winding the journey can be.

@Dontrocktheboat I did really well with the Blue Pencil Pitch Prize and the prize was an hour long chat with a senior agent. This was really valuable and it gave me the confidence to submit to agents last year. I sent 12, had 6 full requests but then five detailed 'its great but not sure where I'd shelve it' replies, like @Hazelwood63 and others.
I haven't resubmitted it since, I wanted to do a little work on it and follow the suggestions but I hope you are right and it's a numbers game.
With regard to short stories - yes, write some! It's a lovely feeling to finish a whole project in a day or two, and when you go back for edits it also is cheering when you think, 'this is good! I wrote this!' Try for a couple of known ones (Bath, Bristol, Bridport etc) and if you write about the success of these in your submission letter, the agents will at least glance at your novel.
Happy to chat more. 🌊