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Creative writing

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Waiting on agents

576 replies

Hazelwood63 · 02/03/2023 15:58

Hello. I'm just looking for company on this long waiting game. Anyone else waiting to hear back from agents at the moment? I sent out five initial submissions at the end of January. So far I've received a really encouraging rejection and two requests for the full. Nothing from the other two so far. It's coming up to a month since I sent off the first full ms, and just over three weeks for the other one. Has anyone else waited over a month for a response to a full and been offered representation, or is it maybe time to think of moving on?

OP posts:
GhostImposter · 26/06/2024 09:33

A discord group could be a good option too? If people are nervous about sharing phone numbers.

Moonflowered · 26/06/2024 09:43

I'd be up for joining a group but not sure about WhatsApp so Discord could be good.

NewWriter · 26/06/2024 14:46

Of course, let's do Discord. I've never heard of it or used it before so will need to sign up. Does anyone mind setting this up since I'm so unfamiliar with it?

GhostImposter · 26/06/2024 16:51

I'll give it a go over the weekend if I can resurrect my Discord. I've never set a group up though, so hopefully it's straightforward.

LuciferRising · 26/06/2024 17:59

Never heard of Discord!

GhostImposter · 26/06/2024 18:30

I don't think we're allowed to link to other communication forums on mumsnet? But it's a messaging/social network app for phone and computer that you can create private discussion in. I've been in a couple that were strict about membership, so it can be set up so it's completely private to members. That way people might feel a bit more free to share information they don't want to be totally public with but they could still keep their identity private.

GhostImposter · 26/06/2024 18:45

I've sent a few DMs to people who've expressed interest.

NewWriter · 26/06/2024 21:20

@LuciferRising I hadn't heard of it before either but just downloaded the app to my phone and it looks pretty simple to use! And also helpfully protects anonymity so we still don't need to share numbers or names if we don't want to.

InfiniteTeas · 28/06/2024 13:34

Apologies for the delay in putting together some submission advice as promised. It's been a bit manic with post-publication stuff. Here's what I've got so far. I'll add more as I think of it and I'll answer any questions as best I can.

UK vs US

There are differences between the two countries, not least in terms of the number of agents operating. A lot of advice on ‘querying’ – itself a US term which has been picked up in the UK – relates to the US. For example, you see big numbers being thrown about in relation to how many submissions to make at a time. Thirty is often mentioned. In the UK, this would probably be a fairly large percentage of the agents who represent your genre. An awful lot of the drama you see online relates to US agents. While there are rogue agents in the UK, there aren’t many of them, and word tends to get round fairly quickly. The US has a huge number of agents, and seems to have a culture of people doing agenting as a second job, rather than as their main line of work. You also see authors etc deciding to set up as agents without the relevant experience. So if you are submitting to UK agents, don’t panic too much about any Twitter drama that you see erupting around US publishing. It’s unlikely to be all that relevant.

Getting ready to submit

Your manuscript should be as good as possible before you even think about submitting. Yes, an interested agent is likely to be willing to work with you to improve it, but it’s rare for them to be willing to do lengthy edits on something that needs a complete overhaul. An agent will occasionally be willing to look at a revised manuscript, but this is the exception. Generally, a no is a permanent no for a particular project.

No one has perspective on their own work. This is particularly the case when it comes to your first book. You pour so much into it and it’s such a huge thing to complete a full novel that it’s very, very hard to step back and work out whether it has any chance of succeeding in a competitive market. Most first novels don’t – and that is fine. The first novel is unlikely to be the one that gets published. It may get you an agent. Its most likely purpose is to simply teach you what’s involved in writing a complete novel.

Take every opportunity you can to get eyes on your work. That doesn’t mean give it to your mum or husband or friend. It means get your writing looked at by someone who knows what they are looking at, and who is willing to tell you the truth. If you can afford to invest some money in your writing, invest it wisely. When you’re a new writer, the chances are that your project won’t be of publishable standard, so think very hard before spending a lot of money on a full manuscript assessment. Some consultancies or festivals offer assessments of a short extract, to give you some idea of where you are in terms of writing quality. In the early stages, I would always recommend spending any money that you have available on something that teaches you to write better. There are all sorts of courses available now. Jericho Writers have some popular ones. The Curtis Brown one is supposed to be very good. The Faber Academy also has a good reputation. The Novelry and Cornerstones both have a good track record. You will get feedback as part of the course, and you should come away as a better writer. Don’t even think about doing an MA until you are already a confident writer who has learned everything you can from the resources available to you. Think of an MA as finishing school. If you can spend some money, but not a whole course’s worth, look for events that have 1:1 sessions with publishing professionals. You can get a lot of valuable feedback in a short session with someone who knows their stuff.

People are talking a lot more about rejection these days, but the stories you see tend to be the ones where someone had twenty billion rejections then the book went on to be a bestseller. Those are not the norm. Most books that have twenty billion rejections will also be rejected by the twenty billion and first agent who sees them. You see a lot of ‘just keep going’ and ‘it’s not you, it’s them’ and ‘you’ll get there, you just have to believe in your story’ advice. It’s well meaning, but it’s generally given by people who have absolutely no idea whether you’re a good writer or whether your story is publishable. You have to keep going, but that doesn’t necessarily mean ploughing on blindly with one project until you’ve run out of agents to send it to. You need to be constantly learning, constantly reevaluating, and you have to be ready to shelve something that isn’t working, and move on, painful though it is. Believe in yourself, rather than believing in a particular project. From conversations I’ve had with agents recently, the overwhelming majority of submissions are not good enough to be taken on by an agent. Of those, the majority are highly unlikely to ever be good enough. This may sound discouraging, but it should actually be the opposite. Based on the numbers of submissions agents receive, if it was a pure numbers game, your chances would be tiny. But it’s not. If you can produce a well-written story with a coherent plot, you are already ahead of the vast majority of people submitting. If you are a competent writer, with decent ideas, who is willing to learn and improve, you are in a tiny minority.

The vast majority of rejections are form rejections. Do not drive yourself mad trying to work out an individual rejection means. A form rejection could mean anything from ‘I’m not looking for this type of book and I didn’t read past the submission email’ through ‘Perfectly competent writing but not a very strong hook’ to ‘Unrelentingly dire.’ Form rejections can say things like ‘while there is much to admire in your work, I don’t feel strongly enough about it’ or ‘while you write well, this isn’t the type of project I’m taking on’ and writers sometimes mistake them for personalised rejections. Google the text or look on query tracker where people often post rejections. A personalised rejection will generally make some reference to your book, beyond copying and pasting the title into the first line. Any mention of characters or plot is a personalised rejection. Generally, this is a good sign as agents are very short of time, so if they bother to make suggestions, it probably means your writing is good and the agent can see potential. However, NOT getting personalised rejections doesn’t mean that your writing isn’t good. Again, agents are just too busy these days to send personalised feedback, even to writers they think have genuine potential.

While any individual rejection can mean anything at all, there might be something to be learned from overall patterns. Most agents take weeks or months to get round to a submission, so if you are consistently getting form rejections a couple of days after submitting, there might be something going on there. For example, you could have a really hooky concept and strong submission email that is catching agents’ attention, but a weak opening page. This is why it’s sensible to submit in smallish batches. If you do see a pattern emerging, it gives you time to pause and reconsider before submitting to the next batch of agents. Also, if you are lucky enough to get some tailored feedback, it means that you can decide if you want to make changes on the basis of that feedback. If you’ve submitted to 30 agents straight off, and the first one to respond points out a fundamental problem with your first page, you’re a bit stuck.

It's worth spending a lot of time on your synopsis, and having a couple of versions of it to fit with different submission criteria. Some agents ask for one page, some ask for two. Your synopsis isn’t like the blurb on the back of a book. It’s not what you use to sell the concept. It should be clear and factual, introducing the main characters, the main plot points and any key theme. It should give away any twist and the ending, unless the agent specifically says otherwise. Capitalise character names when you first mention them.

Your submission email is what you use to grab an agent’s attention. It should contain key information such as the book title, genre, whether it’s a standalone or part of a series etc. It should also include two or three comp titles, at least one of which should be fairly recent. Writers often get upset about agents asking for comp titles but it is standard. It tells the agent what sort of book it is, and also shows that you have given consideration to where it might fit in the market. You can use films/TV shows as comps, but there should be at least one book in there.

A good rough format is:

I am seeking representation for my YA fantasy novel, The Flying Girl. It is complete at 70,000 words and is a standalone novel with series potential.

In a world ruled by dragons, 17 year-old Ariel plots her escape from the evil wizard who enslaved her as a child. Rescued by a troupe of acrobats, Ariel flees to the mountains where she discovers that her destiny is entwined with that of the most powerful dragon ever to live. I would position it alongside novels such as Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros and The Dragon Riders of Pern by Anne McCaffrey.

The inspiration for this novel came from an experience in my early twenties when I was abducted by dragons. I have written several articles about dragon care and my podcast ‘When the dragons came’ has 4 billion subscribers. I have an MA in Creative Writing from the University of London and my short story ‘More Dragons’ won the Bridport Prize in 2022. I have a completed draft of a second novel, Dances with Unicorns, and have ideas for another two books in the same series.

I attach the first three chapters and a synopsis, and look forward to hearing from you.

Keep it clear and straightforward, and include any relevant expertise, eg if you are writing crime, the fact that you’re a criminal barrister should go in.

Agents

Do not accept an offer of representation from someone who does not have either a track record of decent deals for existing clients, or the support of an established agency as they start building their list. A brand new agent at an existing agency can be great. An experienced agent working on their own can also be great. A sole agent who cannot point to recent deals for current clients should be avoided like the plague. They literally have one job. If they haven’t done it so far, why would they suddenly be able to do it for you? A bad agent is worse than no agent. Do your homework. Check out their recent clients. Pay for a month’s subscription to the Bookseller and search for their name and their clients’ names. Check who has published any listed books. If you haven’t heard of the publisher, look them up and see who else they publish. It’s not unheard of for bad agents to have books listed that are self published or vanity published, but presented as though they’ve been traditionally published. Search them on Twitter – not just their own feed, but their clients’ bios to see if they’re actually representing who they say they’re representing. Again, bad agents are very few in number, but they exist and they can do a lot of damage.

If you get a request for a full manuscript, nudge every other agent with whom you have an outstanding submission. Just a simple ‘I’m getting in touch as a matter of courtesy to advise that another agent has requested the full manuscript.’ This will often bump you up their reading pile. There are a couple of agents/agencies who have a blanket policy of not proceeding with a submission where other agents are considering it – Lutyens and Rubinstein, for example – but most are keen to know if they need to crack on and read more quickly. Similarly, if you get an offer of rep, ask for time to consider – 2 weeks is standard – and go back to all other agents and nudge with the offer and relevant deadline.

Your book

There are some things that make an instant difference to the quality of your writing. An understanding of perspective and psychic distance is a big one. A lot of the errors made by writers are to do with a wobbly narrative perspective. Have a look at Emma Darwin’s site, The Itch of Writing. Her explanation of psychic distance is a clear summary of something that all writers should understand.

There are a lot of books on writing, some more useful than others. Save The Cat Writes A Novel is brilliant on structure. How Not To Write A Novel is good and funny.

Make sure you can answer the question ‘What does my main character want?’ If you can’t, you probably don’t have a strong enough plot.

LuciferRising · 28/06/2024 22:02

This is absolutely fabulous. Thank you for taking the time to write this. Makes me realise how far I have to go!

NewWriter · 28/06/2024 22:09

Thanks so much @InfiniteTeas excellent advice! Been looking at the itch of writing site you mentioned and it's been fascinating to read about. I can see which type of psychic distance I tend to use (esp since I write YA) but I didn't know the term for it... Fascinating to learn more about the craft of writing! Going to get the books you've mentioned too.

Hope all is going well post publication and thank you again for the super useful message!!

HelloEverybody · 29/06/2024 21:57

GhostImposter · 26/06/2024 18:45

I've sent a few DMs to people who've expressed interest.

Please can you DM me reg this? Would love
to join. Thanks!

salvia90 · 02/07/2024 16:49

InfiniteTeas · 28/06/2024 13:34

Apologies for the delay in putting together some submission advice as promised. It's been a bit manic with post-publication stuff. Here's what I've got so far. I'll add more as I think of it and I'll answer any questions as best I can.

UK vs US

There are differences between the two countries, not least in terms of the number of agents operating. A lot of advice on ‘querying’ – itself a US term which has been picked up in the UK – relates to the US. For example, you see big numbers being thrown about in relation to how many submissions to make at a time. Thirty is often mentioned. In the UK, this would probably be a fairly large percentage of the agents who represent your genre. An awful lot of the drama you see online relates to US agents. While there are rogue agents in the UK, there aren’t many of them, and word tends to get round fairly quickly. The US has a huge number of agents, and seems to have a culture of people doing agenting as a second job, rather than as their main line of work. You also see authors etc deciding to set up as agents without the relevant experience. So if you are submitting to UK agents, don’t panic too much about any Twitter drama that you see erupting around US publishing. It’s unlikely to be all that relevant.

Getting ready to submit

Your manuscript should be as good as possible before you even think about submitting. Yes, an interested agent is likely to be willing to work with you to improve it, but it’s rare for them to be willing to do lengthy edits on something that needs a complete overhaul. An agent will occasionally be willing to look at a revised manuscript, but this is the exception. Generally, a no is a permanent no for a particular project.

No one has perspective on their own work. This is particularly the case when it comes to your first book. You pour so much into it and it’s such a huge thing to complete a full novel that it’s very, very hard to step back and work out whether it has any chance of succeeding in a competitive market. Most first novels don’t – and that is fine. The first novel is unlikely to be the one that gets published. It may get you an agent. Its most likely purpose is to simply teach you what’s involved in writing a complete novel.

Take every opportunity you can to get eyes on your work. That doesn’t mean give it to your mum or husband or friend. It means get your writing looked at by someone who knows what they are looking at, and who is willing to tell you the truth. If you can afford to invest some money in your writing, invest it wisely. When you’re a new writer, the chances are that your project won’t be of publishable standard, so think very hard before spending a lot of money on a full manuscript assessment. Some consultancies or festivals offer assessments of a short extract, to give you some idea of where you are in terms of writing quality. In the early stages, I would always recommend spending any money that you have available on something that teaches you to write better. There are all sorts of courses available now. Jericho Writers have some popular ones. The Curtis Brown one is supposed to be very good. The Faber Academy also has a good reputation. The Novelry and Cornerstones both have a good track record. You will get feedback as part of the course, and you should come away as a better writer. Don’t even think about doing an MA until you are already a confident writer who has learned everything you can from the resources available to you. Think of an MA as finishing school. If you can spend some money, but not a whole course’s worth, look for events that have 1:1 sessions with publishing professionals. You can get a lot of valuable feedback in a short session with someone who knows their stuff.

People are talking a lot more about rejection these days, but the stories you see tend to be the ones where someone had twenty billion rejections then the book went on to be a bestseller. Those are not the norm. Most books that have twenty billion rejections will also be rejected by the twenty billion and first agent who sees them. You see a lot of ‘just keep going’ and ‘it’s not you, it’s them’ and ‘you’ll get there, you just have to believe in your story’ advice. It’s well meaning, but it’s generally given by people who have absolutely no idea whether you’re a good writer or whether your story is publishable. You have to keep going, but that doesn’t necessarily mean ploughing on blindly with one project until you’ve run out of agents to send it to. You need to be constantly learning, constantly reevaluating, and you have to be ready to shelve something that isn’t working, and move on, painful though it is. Believe in yourself, rather than believing in a particular project. From conversations I’ve had with agents recently, the overwhelming majority of submissions are not good enough to be taken on by an agent. Of those, the majority are highly unlikely to ever be good enough. This may sound discouraging, but it should actually be the opposite. Based on the numbers of submissions agents receive, if it was a pure numbers game, your chances would be tiny. But it’s not. If you can produce a well-written story with a coherent plot, you are already ahead of the vast majority of people submitting. If you are a competent writer, with decent ideas, who is willing to learn and improve, you are in a tiny minority.

The vast majority of rejections are form rejections. Do not drive yourself mad trying to work out an individual rejection means. A form rejection could mean anything from ‘I’m not looking for this type of book and I didn’t read past the submission email’ through ‘Perfectly competent writing but not a very strong hook’ to ‘Unrelentingly dire.’ Form rejections can say things like ‘while there is much to admire in your work, I don’t feel strongly enough about it’ or ‘while you write well, this isn’t the type of project I’m taking on’ and writers sometimes mistake them for personalised rejections. Google the text or look on query tracker where people often post rejections. A personalised rejection will generally make some reference to your book, beyond copying and pasting the title into the first line. Any mention of characters or plot is a personalised rejection. Generally, this is a good sign as agents are very short of time, so if they bother to make suggestions, it probably means your writing is good and the agent can see potential. However, NOT getting personalised rejections doesn’t mean that your writing isn’t good. Again, agents are just too busy these days to send personalised feedback, even to writers they think have genuine potential.

While any individual rejection can mean anything at all, there might be something to be learned from overall patterns. Most agents take weeks or months to get round to a submission, so if you are consistently getting form rejections a couple of days after submitting, there might be something going on there. For example, you could have a really hooky concept and strong submission email that is catching agents’ attention, but a weak opening page. This is why it’s sensible to submit in smallish batches. If you do see a pattern emerging, it gives you time to pause and reconsider before submitting to the next batch of agents. Also, if you are lucky enough to get some tailored feedback, it means that you can decide if you want to make changes on the basis of that feedback. If you’ve submitted to 30 agents straight off, and the first one to respond points out a fundamental problem with your first page, you’re a bit stuck.

It's worth spending a lot of time on your synopsis, and having a couple of versions of it to fit with different submission criteria. Some agents ask for one page, some ask for two. Your synopsis isn’t like the blurb on the back of a book. It’s not what you use to sell the concept. It should be clear and factual, introducing the main characters, the main plot points and any key theme. It should give away any twist and the ending, unless the agent specifically says otherwise. Capitalise character names when you first mention them.

Your submission email is what you use to grab an agent’s attention. It should contain key information such as the book title, genre, whether it’s a standalone or part of a series etc. It should also include two or three comp titles, at least one of which should be fairly recent. Writers often get upset about agents asking for comp titles but it is standard. It tells the agent what sort of book it is, and also shows that you have given consideration to where it might fit in the market. You can use films/TV shows as comps, but there should be at least one book in there.

A good rough format is:

I am seeking representation for my YA fantasy novel, The Flying Girl. It is complete at 70,000 words and is a standalone novel with series potential.

In a world ruled by dragons, 17 year-old Ariel plots her escape from the evil wizard who enslaved her as a child. Rescued by a troupe of acrobats, Ariel flees to the mountains where she discovers that her destiny is entwined with that of the most powerful dragon ever to live. I would position it alongside novels such as Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros and The Dragon Riders of Pern by Anne McCaffrey.

The inspiration for this novel came from an experience in my early twenties when I was abducted by dragons. I have written several articles about dragon care and my podcast ‘When the dragons came’ has 4 billion subscribers. I have an MA in Creative Writing from the University of London and my short story ‘More Dragons’ won the Bridport Prize in 2022. I have a completed draft of a second novel, Dances with Unicorns, and have ideas for another two books in the same series.

I attach the first three chapters and a synopsis, and look forward to hearing from you.

Keep it clear and straightforward, and include any relevant expertise, eg if you are writing crime, the fact that you’re a criminal barrister should go in.

Agents

Do not accept an offer of representation from someone who does not have either a track record of decent deals for existing clients, or the support of an established agency as they start building their list. A brand new agent at an existing agency can be great. An experienced agent working on their own can also be great. A sole agent who cannot point to recent deals for current clients should be avoided like the plague. They literally have one job. If they haven’t done it so far, why would they suddenly be able to do it for you? A bad agent is worse than no agent. Do your homework. Check out their recent clients. Pay for a month’s subscription to the Bookseller and search for their name and their clients’ names. Check who has published any listed books. If you haven’t heard of the publisher, look them up and see who else they publish. It’s not unheard of for bad agents to have books listed that are self published or vanity published, but presented as though they’ve been traditionally published. Search them on Twitter – not just their own feed, but their clients’ bios to see if they’re actually representing who they say they’re representing. Again, bad agents are very few in number, but they exist and they can do a lot of damage.

If you get a request for a full manuscript, nudge every other agent with whom you have an outstanding submission. Just a simple ‘I’m getting in touch as a matter of courtesy to advise that another agent has requested the full manuscript.’ This will often bump you up their reading pile. There are a couple of agents/agencies who have a blanket policy of not proceeding with a submission where other agents are considering it – Lutyens and Rubinstein, for example – but most are keen to know if they need to crack on and read more quickly. Similarly, if you get an offer of rep, ask for time to consider – 2 weeks is standard – and go back to all other agents and nudge with the offer and relevant deadline.

Your book

There are some things that make an instant difference to the quality of your writing. An understanding of perspective and psychic distance is a big one. A lot of the errors made by writers are to do with a wobbly narrative perspective. Have a look at Emma Darwin’s site, The Itch of Writing. Her explanation of psychic distance is a clear summary of something that all writers should understand.

There are a lot of books on writing, some more useful than others. Save The Cat Writes A Novel is brilliant on structure. How Not To Write A Novel is good and funny.

Make sure you can answer the question ‘What does my main character want?’ If you can’t, you probably don’t have a strong enough plot.

Incredibly helpful - huge thanks for taking the trouble to write this!

HelloEverybody · 02/07/2024 20:00

salvia90 · 02/07/2024 16:49

Incredibly helpful - huge thanks for taking the trouble to write this!

I second this!! “To infinity and beyond!”

splothersdog · 05/10/2024 10:45

Hello
Not sure if anyone is still following this thread but looking for some advice.
I have been querying both agents and indie presses . I have just received a full request from an indie.
Would you use this to nudge other presses and or agents?

NewWriter · 18/10/2024 15:11

@splothersdog I would tell agents about the full request from indie press! Sorry totally lost track of this thread!

HelloEverybody · 18/10/2024 18:18

@splothersdog
Congratulations! Agents have different guidelines for this. You should check their submissions guidelines on their websites.

NewWriter · 05/01/2025 16:44

Anyone have any more updates? After querying came to a couple full requests then ultimate rejections, I started my new project in September and hoping to have a first draft finished in the next couple of months.

splothersdog · 05/01/2025 20:02

I have an update! I have just signed with an indie publisher and my novel will be out in 2026!!!

StellaOlivetti · 05/01/2025 20:51

Amazing, @splothersdog absolutely huge congratulations 🥂

splothersdog · 05/01/2025 21:01

StellaOlivetti · 05/01/2025 20:51

Amazing, @splothersdog absolutely huge congratulations 🥂

Thank you! Still pinching myself

Moonflowered · 05/01/2025 21:59

Congratulations @splothersdog that's amazing news!

splothersdog · 06/01/2025 10:20

Moonflowered · 05/01/2025 21:59

Congratulations @splothersdog that's amazing news!

Thank you

NewWriter · 06/01/2025 10:48

Oh my God!! So happy for you @splothersdog !!!!

Hazelwood63 · 06/01/2025 18:22

Congratulations @splothersdog It's always heartening to read good news on this thread. Also an extremely belated but huge thank you to @InfiniteTeas for the excellent and generous post about the submissions process. It's been nearly two years since I started this thread, and here I am, back again, about to begin that submissions process all over again ...

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