Things you wish you’d known…

[Coucou2021]

…when you first started writing / editing / querying / having your books published.

I’d love to hear about the things you wish you’d known, whether to do with writing itself or getting your writing published!

That agents are only interested in books if they think they'll be a big commercial success. I wasted time writing round to agents, and looking back I realise that there was absolutely no chance of anyone offering me representation - and it was nothing to do with the quality of the books. It was to do with the type of books they were. Much better suited to self-publishing.

Well, given that agents only make a living if they are able to sell your book and take a cut, what were you expecting? Agents aren’t an altruistic service!

@Debtknell You're not exactly encouraging people to share their experiences, are you? How about providing a gem of your own, rather than criticising others? The whole purpose of this thread is to explain what we got wrong - and apparently you think it's clever then to criticise us for getting something wrong.
Obviously agents need to make money, but 1) I assumed that a book would need to be good and to sell, but not that it would need to be a BIG commercial success, which is what agents then told me. 2) My books sell more abroad than in the UK, and I assume that this is something that is off-putting to agents in the UK. I hadn't thought it through sufficiently.

That writing a book is a craft you need to learn like any other. Books are structured and that needs to be learned. When I first started writing I had an idea for a story but knew nothing about the 3 act structure etc.

Also, if you want to be trad published then you do need to write something commercial. Yes there are literary books which break the mould but mostly books that are picked up by agents and publishers are ones that fit a specific genre so can easily be marketed.

@Greyfelt This is what I've learnt too. When you first start out you think it's all about talent and the quality of the writing, and it really isn't. I would love to know what genre you're writing in? I have had amazing feedback on my novel and my writing ability, but no one will take my book on. It is very original (which I naively believed was a good thing before I started querying!), I'm considering self publishing as I believe in it so much, but as it's upmarket / literary fiction, I don't know if it will sell.

@BecauseOfIndia My genre is different from yours. From what I've seen, most people who make money from self-publishing do it by publishing very "on genre" books, publishing them frequently, and spending lots of time on marketing. Literary fiction is a minority genre - romance apparently sells best. It's very hard work, and I suspect that most people don't make much money, but you tend to hear from those who do. But if you want to see your book in print, it's a way to achieve that. The downside is that if you self-publish it's less likely a traditional publisher will want to take you on in the future.

@BecauseOfIndia have you considered submitting short fiction to literary journals? They often have small presses as well which publish literary fiction (novels and/or novellas) and if you get published in the top journals, literary agents look at those too and in some cases may reach out themselves, especially if you were to end up in one of the 'best of' type of anthologies.

I agree the market for literary fiction is small, which is a pity, but then I think it always has been. A lot of what people read in say, Victorian times, would not be considered literary either (and has often been largely forgotten since). As such I understand why agents want to try to find the next bestseller - it's their job after all. A lot of literary fiction publishing gets funded by different means for that reason and this allows people to be more experimental in their writing.

@LouisaMayAlcott that about structure was something I had to learn too, I had no idea when I started writing my first novel. It's been an interesting learning curve!

Would love to hear more 'things you'd wish you'd known'!

Thank you @Coucou2021 I didn't know about literary journals, I've never written short fiction but I suppose I can give it a go!

Another thing I wish I'd known about is the preponderance of creative writing MAs, as well as courses like Curtis Brown and Faber, and how as a querying writer you are in competition with people who have been on these. There is a monied aspect I wasn't aware of - paid for Agent121s, MS assessments, editors... If you can't afford these things then you are very much on the back foot and relying solely on talent and perserverance. I know someone who paid to have their query letter and synopsis written for them, which I just thought was crazy.

@BecauseOfIndia I completely agree, however I do expect agents will not take on a manuscript they feel they can't sell, no matter how many agents 121s or courses someone's taken and no matter how professional their paid-for query may be (agree the latter is a bit mad!). In turn, I imagine they'll be glad to take on a manuscript they see great potential in even if someone has not paid for any of the things you've listed, hasn't done any courses etc.

That being said, it does seem there's some money to be made in the industry related to aspiring writers. Sometimes that may help the writers in question, I'm sure, but personally I prefer to just keep writing and get better that way rather than do any of the above.

I love literary journals for the chance they give you to experiment in your writing and, on a personal level, for the confidence they've given me. Would highly recommend to submitting to some if you may be interested in writing short fiction!

I've never done it myself, but I can see the usefulness of paying a freelance editor to help you with your first book. Assuming they are good, of course. Some people basically use that as a kind of training course in writing a good book.

@BecauseOfIndia - have any of the agents you've sent the manuscript to given you any clear explanation / advice that you can work on? If not, maybe it would be worth paying for an assessment, so that you have a better chance of getting your second book published. I think you have to think of writing as a long game.

@Greyfelt I did actually get a free MS assessment via an Arts Council scheme, it's not something I could ever have afforded to pay for myself. I'm glad I didn't pay for it as basically the advice was to ditch everything that was original and turn it into a thriller. I've never read a thriller in my life so this seemed like really stupid advice to me!

I had a similar experience with an agent and an editor from a digital first publisher - both emailing me when they were half through the ms to say they loved it but then both passing on it. The agent was very complimentary about my writing but basically didn't like the ending, and said it was clear that ultimately I wanted to write a different book to the one he was hoping it would be.

The editor was amazing, she said she couldn't fault my writing and that my book was beautiful and deserved to be widely read, but that digital first was not the right publishing format for it because the marketing model wouldn't do it justice. I do agree with that really so I'm grateful to her for being so honest.

So I am plodding on trying to get as many freebies as I can. I suppose on a more positive level that is another piece of advice for anyone starting out - that if you keep an eye on twitter there are quite a few opportunities for free 121s, assessments, workshops etc if you are on a low income. I basically apply for everything I can!

How lovely to get such positive feedback. It sounds as though you have the potential to find a traditional publisher, and for literary fiction that may well be the best way to go. I assume you've given careful consideration to changing the ending, and have contacted lots and lots of agents. I'd suggest that you move on to Book 2, perhaps re-reading some recent novels you're inspired by, which may help you not to stray too far from the kind of thing that publishers are looking for, and reading some "craft" books. Are you in any online writing groups? Eg Scribophile?

From what you've said, have to submitted to other agents? It sounds like the sort of book which needs a trad publisher and therefore an agent to submit it. And in the meantime start writing your second because agents (and editors!) want to know what else they'll be able to sell!

A bag of blow goes a long way in getting a deal ;)

I write children's fiction. One of my adventure books had 2 agents interested in it and both requested different changes - then both rejected it. I was so discouraged that I haven't written anything since 😕

@Snippysocks That's such a pity. Seriously, why not just self-publish?

Because I thought that if no agent would take it, it wasnt good enough and would just be pandering to my vanity😟

Honestly, agents will only accept a book if they think it'll be a big commercial success. An agent not accepting it doesn't mean it's not a good book. The fact that 2 were interested means the opposite - the book is a good book and they probably think that it would sell reasonably well, but not be a big commercial success. With a book like that, you can do well as a self-published author. But it isn't enough to self-publish one book, you'd need to publish a good few, and market them.

Thank you for your encouragement! Any more advice would be gratefully recieved....

*received