How Did This Crap Get Published Thread in Chat.

[Daphnesmate04]

Interesting thread running in the chat forum:

'How did this crap get published thread'.

Quite interesting and from a selfish point of view, it has cheered me up no end as my book was rejected by the half a dozen agents I sent out to early this year. I now plan to self publish late next year.

I feel a bit sorry for the authors mentioned in that thread but reassuringly, it has made me feel better too. I am really proud of my book and I have to admit to reading some published stuff and thinking really? Particularly repetitive chick lit themed books.

Having written a book, I think it can make you really appreciate some fantastic writing out there or be quite critical. I used to really love reading the work of one author (who has published lots of books and been reasonably successful). But now, I am a little sceptical - her books follow the same pattern with similar ingredients...she has found the recipe of success but not ventured out of that zone in her writing career.

I struggle to write anything that isn't meaningful/promote a cause currently but I guess that's just the way I work. It's a good job we are all different.

Happy writing to all in 2021!

But now, I am a little sceptical - her books follow the same pattern with similar ingredients...she has found the recipe of success but not ventured out of that zone in her writing career.

I think though you'll find that's true of most prolific authors, even before the "bring a book out every 3 months" ones.
Think of, for example, Noel Streatfield. The older responsible one, the middle misunderstood not as obviously talented one, and the young very talented and a bit obliviously selfish baby.
There's various themes on that, but I'd reckon most of her books have that as a base.

Also, I don't write for commercial reasons, I guess it makes a difference when writing is your job (and your income).

Bernard Cornwell has a formula and tends to stick to it but he is a good writer (I love Sharpe and the Last Kingdom).
There is plenty of crap that gets published because the publisher knows it will sell.

It’s a silly thread, though, as the majority of people on it apparently can’t distinguish between ‘a book I personally didn’t like’ and ‘a book which is subliterate fan-fic-with-the-names-changed nonsense.’

I mean, people are apparently equating Fifty Shades of Grey and The Great Gatsby. Whatever you may think of the latter, it’s not ‘crap’.

And don’t give up, @Daphnesmate04. My first novel got me an agent, but didn’t sell, but my second did.

I wouldn't expect something written with the intention of promoting a cause or being meaningful to turn out better than something written to a formula. Some of the worst fiction I've read appeared written to ram a message hard and without craft or subtlety.

As @Djouce says, a thread that conflates The Great Gatsby and The Secret History with 50 Shades appears to me to be as much 'I don't like' and 'I don't understand' as 'would be considered rubbish by most readers who have read enough to understand the difference'.

I'm not discounting any reader but I did read an analysis that some of the biggest fans of what I'd consider to be those badly written bestsellers tend to read one book a year and that would be that bestselling book.

Similarly, it seems to me to be partly a thread that conflates good writers writing well to a framework with a bad writer dialling in poorly to a formula.

There are problems with an industry that pushes celebrity fiction so hard and the 'well-connected but not good authors' with real issues around diversity around authors' ethnicity and disabled, regional voices and other neglected authors. That said, to be fair, it's the industry investing their money in a game where the few best-sellers fund all the also-rans.

Some of the worst fiction I've read appeared written to ram a message hard and without craft or subtlety.

I'm hoping I've nailed this. There is no message really, more an exploration...an exploration around grief in the main. And no, it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, it is gritty but does have an uplifting ending of sorts. It also crosses genres, is dual time frame and has an element of fantasy. It has brought beta readers (unrelated to me) to tears. It's the type of writing that takes courage, buckets and buckets of courage. Except by an agent, it is not deemed as commercial. I am glad it is in my hands...I am glad it is under my control, I wouldn't change a damn thing about it. It is resolutely mine.

One of the reasons authors books start to all be similar is because they are perceived to be a 'brand'. Their readers want to know that what they are buying is going to be similar to previous books they've read. So it isn't necessarily the authors fault it is because that is what the publishers want, a commercial decision.

Agreed you cannot compare the Great Gatsby to Fifty Shades. I have never studied literature as such so unable to give a professional critique of any one book but I think people are commenting from an ' how it resonated with them/made them feel point of view' The chick lit I mentioned earlier, gave him a warm glow kind of feeling to begin with...so it did achieve something without being meaningful, something that many people seek...escapism I suppose...but it just wore tired and predictable in the end. There are some books that are keepers on my book shelf...not many but a few because they mean something to 'me'.

should read...gave me (not him) a warm kind of glow!

I can see you're very passionate about your novel, OP. Good luck with it.

I don't think you need to have studied literature, nor need to give a professional review of books to have a legitimate opinion of whether a book is good. I expect there is a strand of literary criticism based purely on how it made the reader feel. I do not equate how a book made me feel with whether I think it is rubbish. I can see some books that left me cold are excellent and some books that I enjoyed, probably mostly genre fiction, are not objectively great.

As @LouisaMayAlcott says, many buyers buy within an author's brand so they get what they expect, probably more so with genre fiction than literary fiction perhaps. I can see good writers writing well within a formula or framework that are not producing rubbish.

@Zilla1

I can see you're very passionate about your novel, OP. Good luck with it.

I don't think you need to have studied literature, nor need to give a professional review of books to have a legitimate opinion of whether a book is good. I expect there is a strand of literary criticism based purely on how it made the reader feel. I do not equate how a book made me feel with whether I think it is rubbish. I can see some books that left me cold are excellent and some books that I enjoyed, probably mostly genre fiction, are not objectively great.

As @LouisaMayAlcott says, many buyers buy within an author's brand so they get what they expect, probably more so with genre fiction than literary fiction perhaps. I can see good writers writing well within a formula or framework that are not producing rubbish.

Absolutely, @Zilla1. There are objectively wonderful novels that simply don't do anything for me -- I can see that they are brilliant pieces of work, and I often have things to learn from them formally, but they are just not to my taste, or the author's sensibility/general subject matter is just one that clashes with me.

I can appreciate Anita Brookner, Sebastian Barry, Jennifer Johnston, Nell Zink, Angela Thirkell, Jonathan Coe, Howard Jacobsen, Trollope, Gissing, Elena Ferrante to mention only a few that come to mind but I don't enjoy them in the least. Which is different to thinking they're 'crap'. They're definitely not in the least crap, and I can see what other people enjoy about them, but they're just not my thing.

On the other hand, I can appreciate entirely the negative criticism levelled at Sally Rooney the self-consciously trendy deadpan style, a crust of trendy politics over deeply trad subject matter etc etc but I did still enjoy both novels and some of her essays.

This is very interesting. And I have a few more authors to look up (I am trying to extend my reading, so very useful indeed).

There are objectively wonderful novels that simply don't do anything for me -- I can see that they are brilliant pieces of work, and I often have things to learn from them formally, but they are just not to my taste, or the author's sensibility/general subject matter is just one that clashes with me.

This is something to consider if the negative reviews start rolling in. I suspect it will apply to the book I have written and although I am indeed, passionate about my book and the potential value it has in helping others, I must try to separate myself from it and look at individuals comments more pragmatically. Quite simply, it will not be some peoples cup of tea...I guess the same applies to all authors.

I knew that 50 shades and twilight would be mentioned before I even opened the thread 😂 I honestly find people who criticise either of those books and argue that they shouldn't be published a little dim to be perfectly honest. They were written for a target market and they nailed the market they were writing for. It goes back to the McDonalds vs Michelin Stars argument. Youtube vs Hollywood Feature Films. George at Asda vs Prada.

Different people like different things, and average reading age of the US is 7th grade.

There is also the very important and not often discussed point about these: ‘a book which is subliterate fan-fic-with-the-names-changed nonsense.’

How many non-readers did these types of sub-literate books turn into readers? Twilight blew up when I was in high school and it was the first book a whole lot of my friends picked up -- friends who had never touched a book that wasn't part of the curriculum before. Same with 50 shades, got two of my aunties into reading again.

I'm glad they were published... the knock on effect of both "phenomena" pays my bills

I struggle to write anything that isn't meaningful/promote a cause currently but I guess that's just the way I work. It's a good job we are all different.

To be fair you don't know that 'formulaic' writers don't write this sort of thing. All you know is that they haven't been published - it can be hard for even established writers to break out of a particular genre

@ReadWritePlay

I struggle to write anything that isn't meaningful/promote a cause currently but I guess that's just the way I work. It's a good job we are all different.

To be fair you don't know that 'formulaic' writers don't write this sort of thing. All you know is that they haven't been published - it can be hard for even established writers to break out of a particular genre

Or even haven't been published under a pseudonym.

Yes, I see your point Witchend.