Can someone talk to me about the motivation behind submitting to agents / traditional publishers?

[themental]

I’m not even sure how to phrase this question so I’m just going to give the background and try to word vomit it out...

I guess this is a WWYD type of situation?

I’ve written a pretty commercial book. If you’ve followed any of my threads or comments you might know this isn’t exactly normal for me! It’s probably best described as chick-lit with romance / romantic comedy. It’s PC, voicey, modern, unique (in a sense, I know there are no new ideas but I genuinely don’t think there is anything like this out there at the moment). Potential for a six book series, all of which already have decent premises. I already have a stunning, eye catching and on-market cover waiting for it.

For arguments sake, let’s pretend I’ve written the new Beach Read by Emily Henry 😂

Okay. So here’s the thing. If you were already making six figures a year from writing and publishing yourself, would you still go down the submit to an agent / try to pursue trad publishing route?

I find myself tempted, but right now I think it might be my own ego that’s talking. I would like to be in airport bookshops. I would like to be able to say that I’ve done it. I don’t really have any reasons beyond that at the moment, but I fully accept I don’t actually know a lot about traditional publishing?

So the question I guess is... for you, why do you it?

I already know how to market books. I know how to launch pretty niche books and get them into the top 500 on Amazon, and hold them there while turning a profit. Run a mailing list, promotions, all that jazz. I have some romcom author friends who regularly release into the top 20 who could send me out and rec me to their readers. Nothing is certain in publishing, but I’m pretty confident that doing this on my own would get me a top 100 book and a nice fat paycheck by summer — especially if I keep going with the schedule I have (which would be roughly one a month until summer 2021). I have the funds available to market them. And the thing with doing it myself is that if it flops, it’s simple to pull it down, recover / rebrand, rewrite the blurb and relaunch — which I’ve done before.

I know this genre CAN do extremely well traditionally published (like I said, look at Beach Read)... but I’ve also seen hundreds of them traditionally published which have flopped and it looks like the publisher basically gives up on them.

So I think there are pros and cons to either option.

If you got this far you deserve a medal and some cake. 😄

So, this goes without saying but I’m fully aware how difficult submitting to agents is (they want a book that makes their heart sing and all of that), I know the chances of landing an agent are minuscule...

I’m just asking if anyone with experience has good reasons for why it’s worth a shot at trying to?

If you were already "successful" by your own definition of success, would you put yourself through all of that? And if yes, do you have a better reason than your ego telling you it'd be nice to be in airport bookshops 😂?

Thanks in advance for any input!

I suppose an agent can get you better deals and book tours/film deals. They've got more contacts...if they're any good.

Well, I have no experience of self publishing, only trad. But what I’d say is - are you prepared to give up some of that control? Say a publisher wants to give you a six figure advance and your agent makes deals all over the world - this is great but they will want their sales and marketing department in charge of publicity. They’ll hire their choice of cover designer. The editor will want to make changes. Yes, I’ve found it a collaborative process all the way through but I haven’t lost sight of the fact that my publishers have invested a major sum of money in me and they’re going to recoup their costs by running a campaign they think will be successful. Their ideas and vision could conflict with yours. Of course, your book might go to auction and you could pick the team who share your vision but still you wouldn’t be the person in sole charge. So I’d think about how you feel about that prospect. But I also think the motivation of seeing your book out there in airports and beyond is a pretty good incentive!

When you say "put yourself through all of that" -- what do you mean?

I mean, I get that submitting to agents and publishers can be stressful as well as an admin faff, but presumably not as labour-intensive as handling all those other aspects of publishing on your own marketing, cover design etc. which you already put yourself through and it sounds like you do that with no problems.

So I guess yes, I'd probably give it a go, if I felt the impulse. I would imagine that if it were me, the motivation wouldn't be to see myself in airport bookshops but to unlock new avenues of connection with readers. You may know how to market books, but you are presumably operating on your own or maybe with a small team of help, whereas a big publisher has a whole team of marketing people and more power to arrange events, link up with book festivals, exploit existing social media reach and so on (even if events and festivals are a different ball game now because of the virus).

What have you got to lose by trying? Especially if you already regard yourself as successful and are in profit anyway.

If you want positives then this could give your ego something additional in terms of the benefits you set out with the fall back option you set out. Regarding agents and publishers, your positive track and history of sales promotion will be selling points so you won't be a naive newbie to them. If it works, it could provide a step-change for the self-published parts of your catalogue. Most importantly, you might learn something from the other side.

Good luck.

I think given how successful you are indie published you need to balance whether your desire to have all the trad published plusses is more important?
I'm trad published and although I knew I had the option of whether to go down that route or indie what I wanted more than the money (which is pants!) was the bells and whistles - my book in Waterstones (no airport books this year!) seeing it recommended in womens magazines etc. All that was for me more important but that has to be weighed against how much I will (won't!) earn.
And having an agent is certainly useful mine will make editorial suggestions before the ms gets to my editor so it is more likely to get a green light.

I put myself through the torment of submitting to agents because I have absolutely no marketing/sales skills and I don't think I would be able to self-publicise my books sufficiently to sell any copies if I published through Kindle, say.

If I could do that sort of thing and was making a decent amount from selling my books, I have to say I would probably be reluctant to hand over a slice of my profits to an agency.

However, agents do have the potential to sell your book to markets that might not otherwise be accessible - foreign translations, film/TV rights etc.

In your shoes I might give it a go and see what the agent had to offer - it's a two-way street and you wouldn't have to accept an offer of representation - if you are already making good money from your writing, it's really for an agent to sell themselves to you, not the other way round.

Honestly I think you’d find the experience of submission quite different to a lot of us. For me, at least, it felt like my shot at something, and every no was another step away from that. On the other hand, you’re already out there shooting your shot. Even if you got flat out rejections you’re still a successful writer.

So basically I’m saying what have you got to lose? The only thing you might find frustrating is the difference in timescales. It’s a VERY different experience from self-publishing! You could have written and published an entire book in the time it takes someone to reply to an email

I write commercial fiction and am published with one of the most successful digital publishers.
I’d love to self-publish to have control over my own cover, title, marketing, pricing... And maybe I’ll go for it somewhere down the line (what’s the worst that can happen??).
And I’d love to be in airports. I don’t have an agent because when I did submit to them I got a lot of interest but only one actual offer of rep, and I didn’t feel that we could work well together (she was SCARY), so decided to approach the digital first publishers myself.
In your position I’d go for it. You have an amazing track record - agents and editors will love you. Your writing is obviously great - everyone will love you. You’re obviously very talented, professional, driven - agents and editors will love you. And what’s the worst that can happen?? The BEST that can happen is the airport thing and the kudos and the recognition that you’re fantastic at what you do...

If you are already in a strong position, then you can sub to agents and find out what more they could offer you. You can always say no. You can turn down publishing deals that would be on less favourable terms than the ones you can create for yourself. You can part ways with an agents after one month by friendly email or letter. Nothing would bind you to anyone until you signed a publishing deal. So why not find out.

I'd prefer the trad route because I'd hate to spend time and energy marketing - not something I do well naturally. They handle distribution, marketing (even though you still have to blow your own trumpet) translation rights. film and TV rights etc better than most writers might.

I write literary fiction. I have an agent because I don’t want to market my work and negotiate contracts and translation etc rights, and I chose my publisher in part because it’s important to me that my books are beautiful objects.

If you think this book series might have a reach beyond your usual market and would like to see physical books on shelves, why not? Do you have a specific agent in mind? Can you write a good synopsis? Are you amenable to being edited far more carefully and at more length than your usual process, even before your agent sends the MS out? How about if your editor then says he/she wants you to drop a character, rewrite a subplot, make significant structural changes, and include the situation for what you planned as book 2 in the first? They will have their own ideas about cover images — will you be frustrated and backseat driving? You’re used to an incredible self-directed speed, but with a traditional publisher, your sequel, if it appears, would probably not do so for a year after the first book.

My agent was submitting my book recently and she passed me some information from one of the more generous e-publishers. Per 1000 sales, an author could expect to make almost £700 from this publisher, compared to about £350 from an average e-book publishing house and less than £300 from paperback sales . If you are self-publishing and making a very good income from that route, these figures may give you pause for thought.

And, echoing the posters above, I would say the advantage to me for having an agent is not having to market myself or my book - it's not something I would be at all comfortable with or have any talent for.

Hey themental I have followed many of your posts, I remember the initial posts when you self published and even PMed you recently for advice!

I would ask why you feel the need to submit to a trad publisher, when you are already doing so well? I think lots will take interest in you (especially if they realise how well you are already doing) but I think it is very difficult to predict who will be the priority for publishing houses and to what extent they would back you.

I see the Richard Osman effect on the industry, how celebs are making more and more money and genuinely wonder whether it is worth anyone who is not famous to approach a traditional publisher. However you do already have a track record so I think if you want to give it a shot, go for it.

Hello!

I’m sorry for posting and bailing, we got hit with the dreaded covid and today is the first day I’ve felt somewhat human again.

Thank you all so much for all the responses!

I’ll try to expand on some of them below and work my way through 😁.

@LegoPirateMonkey Re giving up control I’m actually fine with this! I’m not really precious at all when it comes to my words or characters or covers etc. I am used to ruthlessly writing to market so that wouldn’t be a problem.

@ShortSilentNight I guess by “putting myself through all of that” it’s two-fold. Just the emotional strain of rejections and the convoluted process of trying to find an agent (I lurk on the big agent thread), and then also the long timeframes involved with the whole process. I feel like realistically, best case scenario of landing an agent straight away, nothing would happen with the book until summer(?), whereas if I did it myself, by summer I could have six books out and already working on a second series and building a brand name. And yeah you definitely make a great point about unlocking new avenues with readers.

@Zilla1 thanks for weighing in! Yeah the more I think about the more I can see the main positive is learning from the other side. Either way, the book will be on a new pen name and not connected to my other darker works so I don’t think it would have an effect (either positive or negative) on the self-published side.

@LouisaMayAlcott haha that is exactly the dilemma I’m having 😂 what is more important, the money or the bells and whistles? For me it’s always been about the money, I’ve been cool with not being a “real author” kinda thing. But now I find myself wondering if that is enough? I am trying to imagine how I would feel if I got the deal, but the book flopped and I didn’t make any money, and I think I’d be distraught. So maybe the money is still more important to me 😣

Update

I've been stewing over the responses and decided to try to pursue traditional publishing.

Just not with the chick-litty rom com

I've had an idea for a domestic thriller rattling around in my brain for the best part of a year, so decided to commit 1k/2k a day to getting it written and hopefully finished by the spring.

I figured I already have a decent enough marketing strategy for the romance, and I'd probably kick myself if it flopped. Whereas I don't know where to begin marketing thrillers and have no real connections in that genre (though I'm already getting to work making some and investigating strategies in case I get completely rejected 😂).

So now I can actually join the querying thread instead of lurking 👀

You’ve got great advice on this thread. This stood out to me:

For me it’s always been about the money, I’ve been cool with not being a “real author” kinda thing. But now I find myself wondering if that is enough?

I think many people go the traditional publishing route for the above reason: to become a ‘real’ author, as you write. Why not? I know not everyone thinks this way but some readers do look at the publisher and do make assumptions about the quality of the lit based on that.

Best of luck with your domestic thriller. 1K-2K per day is a great word count. You seem very motivated.

I've submitted before, about to again. 'Close but no cigar last time.' Even compliments on the quality of the writing in personal emails from top agent's. Two full manuscript requests. All of this makes it more disappointing at not receiving an offer of representation. The only reason I mention it. They were right. I Wasn't ready. Being better than 95% of what's out there is no where near good enough. Even then an element of luck is needed. Publishing is a business and not a meritocracy. How many great books have never seen the light of day. 'songs never sung'. You did something only 0.082% of people will do. Published a book. If your younger that percentage falls sharply. If self publishing everyone should check out the 10 hours of podcasts on SMASHWORDS. Pie charts. Easy to understand. If I can get these new first chapters beta-d. I'm ready to go in weeks. Happy to share. AN OFF TOPIC- Is it me or is a blurb harder to write than the first three chapters?

Is it me or is a blurb harder to write than the first three chapters?

Yes, in my experience. I always find to decide which parts of the book to emphasise, as there are so few words in which to sell it.

AN OFF TOPIC- Is it me or is a blurb harder to write than the first three chapters?

I always write the blurb before I start writing the book... it's what sets the tone / gives me the idea, and it also stops you putting plot in there. Plus if I, the writer, NEED to know what's going to happen then there is a good chance a potential reader will need to know too.

I've had 1 in 4 conversions using that method.

A bit late for you now maybe but try it for the next one.

Totally agree @themental - one liner, then elevator pitch, then blurb, then synopsis, then plan, then the book...
Otherwise there’s every chance that agents/ editors will say Great writing but where’s the hook

My stories completely adapt between the draft and the manuscript. If you tie yourself in you don't allow your story to develop. Also depends on writing stye and whether your a planner or a pantser. The first draft is just telling yourself the story and showing how not to do it. I see how a version of that could work in a limited way and your point about being to explain the story to a friend. You hit that on the head. A blurb is the opposite of a synopsis. Its job is the same as the cover. To engage a potential reader while not telling the story and giving anything away. Here's a back page example. A little long 120 to 150 words is the sweet spot.

Blurb

It’s a love as old as history. One will never remember, one can never forget.
Leaving behind her poor childhood Psychiatrist and devoted mother, Hannah Johnson begins her residency at Tallwood Psychiatric Hospital and a new life in small-town Arizona. Her first patient is Skye, a girl with multiple personalities. As a friendship grows Hannah realises something connects them. That the girl has abilities. Her stories aren’t stories at all, they’re the memories of a thousand lifetimes.
Blissfully happy, Hannah loves her new life. Yet now she’s throwing her sleepy daughter in the SUV and driving in panic to the middle of an empty desert.
It’s not the truth of Skye that frightens Hannah. It’s the bleak future the girl foresees. An ancient darkness, patient, watching. It hunted Skye a thousand lifetimes. Now it comes for Hannah and those she loves most.
Hannah now understands what Skye needs from her as the salvation of all depends on one day, a single choice and a light that has yet to shine.

This is the blurb. Saying something while saying nothng, and giving a potential reader a taste of the MC.

@Koios I don't know if that's your blurb but if it is you might want to check out this video...

Also you are missing a comma in the second paragraph which changes the intended meaning of your sentence.

My stories adapt completely when I'm writing (I'm a pantser and don't plot at all) but the premise and character I thought up while writing the blurb doesn't change. I don't let it change because that is my hook. This doesn't stop my story developing at all because the blurb isn't really about my story -- it is lines of sales copy designed to entice the reader into clicking the buy button. Also I only write one draft.

Its just a work in progress. Version twenty. I find putting it away for five days between edits helps you look with fresh eyes. I find it easy to write other peoples work and blurbs, but not my own. One draft I'm impressed. We should do some chapter swaps on here.

That is a well hidden gem. Yes, the two step at the fronts what I'm looking for, and I'm at least 30-40 words heavy. Three months left in this novel editing/Beta round. The main block in the blurb is the only part I'm happy with, though it does need breaking up. You'll have to tell your secrets on drafts. With me its work rework. Be prepared to kill your darlings and being prepared to discard chapters you love. Agree with him. Though some of his were series related. With a stand alone a sense of place/who the character is/what's at stake or what do they need/the cost of getting there/consequences if they do or don't. I do agree with his structure.