First chapter

[yourhistory]

I know the first three chapters are all important and I am wondering what people think about introducing the 4 major characters in the first chapter, so having a bit about the background of each one? I am just not sure whether this would go against standard structure of a novel, and would be too bitty for a reader to absorb. The whole book is finished, so it wouldn't be hard to move things around. There is one main protagonist in the book, with 3 other major characters who impact hugely on the story, who do not know each other.

Thank you!

I'd probably focus on your main character. It can get confusing if too many characters are introduced at the same time.

I think the main thing to watch out for is that there's enough conflict in the chapter. It shouldn't be a list of 'here are the characters'.

What's their motivation? What's the hook for the reader?

Well, it starts briefly with the hook - the mc is talking to someone and talks about the main conflict briefly. It then introduces another character with the MC but could also be seen as background for the MC, and it is about one of the themes, which is privileged vs under privileged. Then it touches on the man MC will eventually fall in love with, and that bit is quite lyrical, about him, where he came from. And then it is about the character who will cause the conflict. And then back to MC. It isn't confusing, as they are all so different and distinct, and we return twice to MC, but it might well be too much.

I am laughing as I write this as it does sound a lot, but actually, my thinking was that I was told that people had short attention spans nowadays and so keeping things moving would be interesting! I quite often decide whether to buy a book based on the first page (which I read in a book shop) then a flick through the first chapter so I was basing it on what I would want to read. The second and third chapters and more linear and feature the character who will cause drama.

What do you think?

**are more linear not and more linear sorry

Well, it starts briefly with the hook - the mc is talking to someone and talks about the main conflict briefly.

I think we'd want to see the main conflict as it happens, whether that's in real time or a flashback, rather than have someone report what happened.

What genre is it?

The main conflict is actually happening - in the convo the mc is saying "this is happening to us" telling someone what is happening at that point.

the genre is similar to that described on by the OP of the waiting for agents thread - adult fiction which is classier than chick-lit or flat out commercial "but not artsy enough to be literary"

what do you think about different story streams in one chapter?

Sorry I forgot my manners there - thank you for showing an interest and your input would be much, much appreciated!!

It sounds like there's a rather a lot of telling, rather than showing, in the first chapter. Try to avoid this, if possible.

Thanks greatcrested - I tend to show not tell in how I write normally, so I don't think (I am not certain) there is much telling.

It's hard to know what you mean about different story streams.

Are you writing from one person's POV throughout the book? If you are writing from more than one, you will usually need a chapter change whenever you slip into another POV.

If you are using third person multiple POVs then a section break can be enough.

If something happens, eg a woman meets a man or a woman dumps a man or a woman loses her job etc, we always need to see it happening in real time.

Are you saying that the MC says to a friend (for example) last night I met a new guy/dumped a guy/lost my job etc and then tells her all about it? If so perhaps start to think of your book as a film. Would the MC in a film tell another character about something that happened or would you see on screen what happened? I think you'd tend to see them telling it if they were an unreliable narrator.

It still sounds to me as if you're telling, rather than showing, if a character is telling another character what is happening. Why can't you show whatever it is actually happening, rather than having it mediated via a conversation?

I always think of this: if you told your friend something exciting that had happened to you it's likely she'd say, "Oh I wish I'd been there!" That's what you need to bear in mind when you're writing.

The book is about someone who because of the circumstances of their birth and early life has a very complicated life, and is about how she eventually simplifies it - motivated by having had dc herself - and the simplifying is in essence to do with finally discovering what love and emotional intimacy is about and letting the rest drop away. Lots of other things happen in the book, all leading to same point.

The story streams are to set the scene for the above (that was the intention anyway) starting with "x is doing this to us and it is causing horrendous ongoing trauma" (like a brief scene in a movie) then going back a few years showing more about mc in her life as adult, then a bit about the man which is the true love bit and I have tried to show through the writing about how his life has, in contrast to mc's, grown from love and stability and security - simple, straightforward - and then finally the story stream about the woman who will try to wreak havoc (and of course ultimately fail) and the writing shows (I hope) her inner turmoil, facades, need for drama.

So more than one story stream but all in one chapter, which is the bit I am really wondering about.

The POV is almost all about MC, third person, with 3rd person observations of other characters and their actions, and maybe a few bits of their own POVs dotted around.

Thanks! And I am sorry about the mistakes - have this time read this post through before sending!

The above post was @hollowtalk

@baskerville the bit at the beginning is really a hint of what is going to happen. So, like a sort of psychological drama, it is the first clue.
I am myself questioning it, so all this questioning is helpful. But I couldn't start with the actual thing because the actual thing has been done so subtly that it takes the mc a bit of time to work out what has happened.

I would be very, very cautious about having nearly all one person's POV but then other people's dotted throughout. It can be very frustrating for the reader as it seems just too convenient that we know those other people's POVs.

In the end though I think you should just write the book! The first draft will always be rough and things will change. You might decide to write from a different POV or to write in the first person for immediacy. Some decide to change to the present tense for the same reason.

The thing is that without that first draft you can't do anything. Get it written, tell the story, then look at it again (and ask others to, before a rewrite) and decide what should be done. For instance you might want to change where the story starts. You might realise you're telling, not showing. You might want to bring other characters to the forefront and explore their motivations. But you can't do any of that without a first draft, so get your head down and write it!

It still sounds like throat-clearing, though. I don't usually recommend prologues and I think they make a lot of people roll their eyes but can you pre-empt some of the action, even if it happens much later with a short striking scene of something actually happening, like the havoc-wreaker doing her thing? Even if you don't identify her as such?

Look at -- I don't know, the opening of Donna Tartt's The Secret History. The fact that the short prologue tells us there's been a murder, who dies, that the protagonist helped kill him etc hooks interest and sets up the much more meditative first chapter proper, which is mostly filling in Richard's background and teenage angst before he arrives at university and the plot proper starts....?

Hollow, I think she's already finished the first draft and is now rethinking the beginning...?

hollowtalk the book is completely written, checked, edited. I am just now wondering about the first chapter story streams - but it is all written so it would not be a big deal for me to move things around so that it was more streamlined at the beginning.

I know what you mean about POVs and I read up on the usual problems. I think that bit is ok.

baskerville thanks - I am probably being dumb but I am totally confused:

can you pre-empt some of the action, even if it happens much later with a short striking scene of something actually happening, like the havoc-wreaker doing her thing? Even if you don't identify her as such?

I don't know what you mean... actually I wasn't sure what you meant by throat clearing either...

Look at -- I don't know, the opening of Donna Tartt's The Secret History. The fact that the short prologue tells us there's been a murder, who dies, that the protagonist helped kill him etc hooks interest and sets up the much more meditative first chapter proper, which is mostly filling in Richard's background and teenage angst before he arrives at university and the plot proper starts....?

This is exactly what I aimed to do - there isn't a murder but it says what the woman has done, which is a pretty appalling thing to do, by most people's standards, aiming to set up interest, and then the story starts. How is this different from a throat clearing?!! Sorry if I am being stupid, and thanks again.

Oh sorry, I don't know how I missed that the whole book was written!

hollow what do you think about the story streams in the first chap and the story generally?

The POVs of other characters are more to explain their character, eg the character who causes the problems has wanted and fought for something and then when she gets what she wants, she decides it is pure drudgery - so we know she finds it drudgery (her POV) - which shows her character in that respect. Not to do with the main story unfolding. Is that ok do you think?

By throat-clearing I mean the way people harrumph or warm up before actually starting to speak or sing. In a novel you need to cut straight to the singing or speaking, and having an opening scene of people talking about how something awful is happening to them rather than showing directly whatever the awful thing is actually happening seemed rather warm-up-ish.

Maybe The Secret History was a poor example. I was just using it as an instance of a novel which is very slow-burning and lacking in obvious 'event' for a long time, but we're hooked because we know that something appalling and huge happens from the prologue.

A better example is William Maxwell's So Long, See You Tomorrow, which is sitting on my desk. It's a gentle novel primarily about the longlasting consequences of a rural murder, but the very opening scene is two neighbours hearing what they think is a car backfiring, but which is in fact the fatal gunshot.

It starts with a dramatic moment, even though the neighbours don't understand what happened, so it gives very little away.

Does that make sense?

I really don't like changes in POV like that, I'm afraid. I do like changes in POV in first person, where you're inside that person's head, but it sounds a bit convenient otherwise.

I think you have to work out whose story it is and tell it from their POV. If another character has a motivation or a feeling (in my opinion) it should be shown as it's discovered by the main character. It's very hard to tell without reading the manuscript, of course.

I would usually say though that chapter one should belong only to the protagonist. It will take a while to get into her head so I wouldn't particularly want to be confused by other people's POVs at that point. Of course they could say something to the MC to indicate their feelings, or the MC could witness an emotion play out on their face etc but I think I'd prefer not to change POV so quickly.

basker yes it makes sense. Did you think it was a throat clear because in both novels you refer to the event is described itself whereas in mine it was described in a convo between characters?

What do you think of the multiple story streams in the first chapter and is there anything about what I have described that sounds interesting to you? Or is it just not your genre (guessing murder is your genre?)

If anyone else wants to give any opinion at all I would be really happy to hear because I want to get this fecker published, and willing to make whatever changes necessary!

hollow that is really helpful, thanks.

I know you don't want to tell us what actually goes on in the book and I don't blame you - anyone could read this - but could you give us an example using something from real life, eg I found out yesterday that my best friend was sleeping with my husband - I told my other friend all about it - that sort of thing? If you can tell us the sort of thing that's being told at the start it might make it easier for us!