How do you stay sane while querying agents?

[CakeRage]

I finished my first book earlier this year (after saying for years I was going to write it), and started submitting to agents 3 weeks ago.

I’ve had a couple of replies, both really encouraging, but ultimately both rejections, and I feel like I’m losing my marbles. How do you keep it together while waiting? Not sure I can take the emotional rollercoaster

The first agent replied within hours to ask for the full manuscript, emailed again the following day to say she was halfway through and absolutely blown away by it, then a few days later to say she did love it, but thought it needed a few changes making. I revised the whole thing (10,000 extra words of work), then she replied just to say it wasn’t working, and she wouldn’t be taking it further.

To be honest I’ve been pretty gutted by it. How do you stop the little judgy voice in your head which tells you you were an idiot for getting your hopes up?

The second agent replied to say she was really impressed by my writing, but didn’t feel I was a good fit for her list at the moment, and recommended another agent (different agency) who she thought would like it. I handled that one much better, even though I guess it was more of an abrupt no.

Please tell me how you cope with this stage - or come commiserate with me at its horribleness!

(Sorry for my crazed rambling - feeling all my feelings this week!)

I'm starting to think similarly, Cake. Not sure whether to do one last round of submissions first, or just call it a day and go down the self-publishing route.

Sorry to hear about your full.

That's a shame, Cake, but you only need one person to like it!

re. self-pub, if you believe in the work it's worth a shot. The time I submitted an MS and got rejections on my full, I ended up agreeing with their comments, and for me personally decided I couldn't face doing the required changes to make it totally solid (ie a total rewrite for a second time) and that I'd rather write a second book than get it up to snuff for self-pub. But if I'd disagreed with them I'd have gone for it!

Thanks guys. To be honest I’m not even that gutted this time - more just resigned. I had hoped to get feedback though, especially for a full rejection. This was just ‘you can definitely write but it’s not right for my list’. What do I do with that?!

Still, it’s September now, so back on the horse. I need to start making an effort to make time to work on book two. How’s everyone else getting on?

Hello. Yes, those ‘you can definitely write but it isn’t right for my list’ ones are sooo annoying. After being told that my concept and opening were great but my plot needed work, I had two rejections saying that everything was great except not high enough concept. All so subjective! And without a consensus of opinion it does feel pointless making revisions because feels as though they’d just be a stab in the dark...
I also feel resigned about this one and am trying to press ahead with book two.
How’s everyone else doing? Maybe September will be a better month - agents back from hols and wanting to sign people??

I don't understand, surely if the concept is not right, surely you can redraft? If you can write, thats what should matter? Surely plot can be amended?

I was told that when an agent says you are not right for my list, that is pure luck. I will take heart because it is just timing.

I am going to Jericho Writers Festival next Friday where I have 2 ten minute sessions with 2 agents (part of the ticket price). They have read 3000 words of my ms. I will take their comments on board and redraft (pretty sure now my ms was not good enough). I just hope if they don't think I can write, they tell me, rather than sugar coating any advice.

Sorry last post quickly typed!

I looked at the Jericho Writers' Festival and thought it sounded good, but getting there would've been hideously complicated for me (I don't drive). I'd be really interested to hear about it when you get back, Hello.

I would very happily redraft if I had some concrete guidance and a consensus in one direction but on the one hand several agents have told me that they love the overall concept and that it’s very pitchable to editors but that the details of the plot need work, and on the other some agents have told me that they love the writing and the content but that they don’t know how they’d pitch it to agents. Ie contradicting each other (and illustrating how subjective the whole business is). So whose view to go with??
Probably the same for many aspiring authors...

It's annoying that writers are given such contradictory advice, I feel and understand the frustration Ellie.

Years ago I was selected along with 4 other writers to submit a script for one of the top 3 soaps. They were looking for 2 writers so had 50% chance of getting through. I wrote a script and got a writer (who was considered one of the best on the show with 15 years experience) to read and give feedback.

She called me back and said "this script is brilliant. I have no amendments to suggest. I'd be proud to have my name on this script". Well I was punching the air thinking "yes!"

Two weeks later, my script was rejected. One of the other rejected writers and I had near identical feedback. I was so upset, frustrated and above all baffled. How could one writer call it brilliant and the producer reject it outright?

I think this is the pain of being in a creative field. But I got the strong impression that the powers that be were never really honest about all the factors affecting their decision eg in media, a big personality was considered a plus.

Will update about Jericho!

*3 other writers that should be.

How could one writer call it brilliant and the producer reject it outright?

The writer was looking at your script through a writer’s eyes, the producer through a producer’s. So it’s likely that your script was well-written, and the writer judged it as much. But a producer is looking from a different angle, and it’s subtle sometimes, but the difference is there.

We used to get a lot of this kind of thing in my old job, and it’s frustrating as all hell, but I get it. Sometimes one of my writers would come up with something amazing, and I would approve it, because it was smart and subtle and brilliant, but then it wouldn’t get past marketing (usually because it was TOO smart and subtle and they didn’t get it). That didn’t make the work the writer created less brilliant, it’s just that people are looking for different things. Like you said, that’s the problem with being in a creative field.

Ooo Cake what did you do in your previous role?

I was a copywriter. Most recently I managed a team of junior and mid-weights, so used to being the one with all the answers.

How the mighty fall

Sorry, please forgive the fact that I am dipping in and out of this thread (I would like to read the recent updates but the dross of every day life has taken over).
I have just posted this recently (a bit confusing because I name changed and didn't change back):
A few months ago I made a list of agents to submit my work to. The best match appeared to be Madeleine Milburn (an Elinor Oliphant fan). If anyone has submitted to Madeleine, which other agents did you submit your work to? I have sieved through the Writers and Artists Yearbook and Jane Judd was another possible agent but I see she is no longer accepting submissions. My book crosses a few genres - womens lit/historical and contemporary/uplit/with a dash of fantasy (there's a ghost!). Anyone?
I am procrastinating terribly at the moment. Granted life has got very busy with renovating the house and a toddler rampaging around the place but I am putting off perfecting my synopsis/covering letter etc. I think because I am afraid of failure (always had fairly low self esteem) and probably because I have put a lot of me into the book (slightly but not totally memoirish) and I'm not distancing myself from the actual writing if you see what I mean. I am a bit of a perfectionist and I know that it is not perfect but where does perfect and in-action collide? Gah, anyone recognise this? Sorry to gate crash the thread without responding to others x

Sorry I am no help on the agent front as my list is all SFF agents but I understand the procrastination. For a number of reasons I've worked on this particular book for many years and once I've submitted to my shortlist of agents, it won't take long until it's all over and I have to start from scratch again. I'm feeling the pressure of 'make it right' and 'this should be the one' alongside just wanting to get it over with!

As it is, I've finished another draft tonight, a 3.5 really. I did a first draft, a fix the holes in the plot draft, then another read through, then the last couple of days I've been fixing up some specific points I'd made notes on. I want to read it through again but essentially it should be ready now. I'm happy with my cover letter and synopsis. But arggggh! What if I send it off too early? Would I be better off sitting on it for another week?

Been meaning to reply Hellomatey to say how hideously disappointing your script writing experience sounded.
Near misses are so frustrating - so many What Ifs.
The one tiny upside is that after an experience like that maybe one expects less from subsequent submissions.
And yes I agree, Daphne and Mouse - hard to know when to stop perfecting (and as it’s all so subjective one person’s change for the better could be another’s change for the worse) and actually to send it off. And the bad thing about sending it off is that if it doesn’t work out it’s depressing and can feel like wasted effort whereas if you haven’t tried you can still hope... HOWEVER, nothing ventured nothing gained. And I think September’s a good time to submit.

Yes, I definitely plan to submit to at least a few agents in September. My novel is quite dark and I think it coincides with the weather at this time of year (although I believe it is going to warm up again). Ah, that's it then, I've have to wait until the weather turns bad again (she continues to find any excuse to procrastinate, including the weather!)

Am reporting back from my Jericho Writers festival experience! This is a writing festival in York with workshops with talks from agents and authors.

I don't think it was worth going if you are looking for writing tips, as most sessions were too short and needed more time to get into depth. However, it did offer insight into the industry and offered 2 one to ones with agents. What I learnt was eye opening. This is what I learnt about agents and writing:

1. Agents only read submissions until they lose interest. This could be as little as one line. Indeed one agent told a story of how an agent stopped reading a ms after one line because he did not like the turn of phrase.

2. Agents can turn something down because they are having a bad day or not in a good mood. This is why you should send widely because your chosen agent might not be in a "good mood" the day your ms arrived.

3. Most writers who are making a living through writing (above $29,000) are self publishing.

My one to ones were interesting on a personal level as both agents said I could write but that my opening needed reworking.

To be brutally honest, I was stunned by some of the agents and their almost cavalier attitude they had towards writers. Additionally nearly all of the agents attending were mid 20s to mid 30s, middle class, well educated, London centred and white. Some speakers admitted there is a huge diversity issue in publishing and this shows in the choices being made.

If you want anymore info, can pm me.

Very interesting Hellomatey - thank you!
I read a similarly stunning interview with a very well-respected agent the other day - she seemed almost angry with many writers for having the audacity to submit to her.

Although to be fair to agents they’re obviously very busy and not charities. BUT writers when submitting are usually acting in good faith and not trying to annoy anyone!

That's really interesting, Hello - thank you for reporting back. A little depressing to hear of the agents' cavalier attitude, but it's borne out by the submissions process - so many now not even sending a form rejection.

Your observation about the demographic of agents has struck me before. I've sometimes wondered if I should use an address for submissions that's nearer London (friend/family member's address).

If I think about it too long, it annoys me that literary agents have wedged themselves in between writer and publisher, at a cost of 10 - 15% of profits, and then, on the whole, treat writers with very little respect.

Was there much opportunity to socialise/network with other writers, and were people friendly, or was it a competitive atmosphere, Hello ?

Thanks so much for reporting back, Matey

The attitude you’ve mentioned is definitely something I’ve noticed, but I thought it was just my bitterness! I feel quite validated that I’m not the only one who feels that way.

This is in complete contrast to the experience I’ve had looking into self-publishing. I can’t speak for all the self-pub communities, but the few I have stumbled across have been supportive, collaborative and welcoming. Some of them are making a lot of money (6/7 figures annually), and they are quite happy to share what they know so other people can have the same success.

Something else I’ve found interesting is how many people in these communities have previously published traditionally, and are now choosing to go down the independent route because the way they’ve been treated (or they perceive they’ve been treated) by agents and publishers.

There’s this perception that indie publishing is for people who aren’t good enough to be picked up the trad route, and I admit I’ve been guilty of thinking that way, but this experience has totally opened my eyes. Of course, there is a LOT out there which is total crap, but there are a fair few gems too, some better than any of the trad books I’ve read recently. I stand corrected on the whole issue, I’ve got to say.

I'm hoping to submit my work this month but I'm now wondering whether in fact, self publishing is the way to go. But self publishing as opposed to the traditional route does seem to be considered the second best thing to do from what I have been reading.

Anyone else about to submit their work for the very first time?

I asked earlier whether anyone knew of any agents with the same tastes as Madeleine Milburn and I think I've found a couple more (still have only four possible agents so far but a big improvement on one). If any other agents come to mind, I would be pleased to hear from you.
Good luck to everyone who has submitted work and is waiting to hear back.

Preparing, the writers were all very supportive of each other. There was a real camaraderie between us as we all understood how tough the process was. That was the best thing about attending tbh. There was a real community feel.

The one line rejection is something that really shook me. The agent who told this story was actually laughing about it. For all the talk stating "we read all submissions" the truth was, they didn't read 3 chapter submissions. One line judgements are arbitrary, impulsive and unfair. You could be W Shakespeare and still get rejected.

The agent also said sometimes she could be in a bad mood and she'll reject everything that day, again I was floored by this comment.

Cake, my view on self publishing has changed. One writer who gave a talk on it (he was traditionally published) said he has made 6 figures through self publishing and pretty much marketed whilst at home caring for his twin babies. He set out a whole plan how to do it. Again most writers who are making a living through writing go down the self publishing route. Best of luck with it!

Daphne - I've just started trying to find an agent too and also sent my first three chapters to MM today - let's hope she's in a good mood when she gets to our submissions. I'm finding it really difficult as well to work out if a particular agent would see me as a good fit, it seems so random - and I hate having to say which books I think mine would sit alongside (it sounds so deluded). It's only been seven hours and I already can't stand the waiting.