Struggling to develop my idea for a novel

[writerperson]

To cut a very long ramble short, I've never written a novel before but am trying to. It's not going well.

Having read some stuff online and a book about story and story structure, I've realised that my protagonist is a bit wishy washy and doesn't have a strong goal or character arc. It's more that she's living her life then the antagonist comes along and makes life difficult for her and she reacts to that, which makes her feel a bit passive.

I have a setting and world that I love, an antagonist that is good and creepy, but I'm really struggling trying to find a strong goal and arc for my antagonist.

I'm so inexperienced I have no idea whether I should give up on this novel idea or try and push it somehow until I get somewhere. Any tips?

There's a great book called Save The Cat. It's about film writing but there's an excellent chapter called "why does my film suck" or something like that, and it identifies some really good reasons why plots fall flat. You can probably find it online if you Google search

Ok I remembered it incorrectly...I'll DM you!

Why not make your antagonist the focus if they're coming through so strongly?

Thanks for the replies.

Zilla1 - can you make a villain the focus of a novel? I thought you had to have a likeable protagonist and the villain stands in their way, making obstacles to the protagonist's goals?

Connieston - I feel like I already know why my idea sucks - the protagonist doesn't have a strong goal.

Have you written anything previously? It may be easier if you give yourself permission to throw down the rulebook and just listen to the characters.

It's pretty impossible to reach adulthood in a society based on language without being naturally imbued with an instinct for and understanding of structure - so you can probably take that for granted.

George I've written some short stories and some scripts in the past, I can see some of these have potential but are not amazing.

Failed at the messaging! I suppose a key Q is What story are you trying to tell? If. You're winging it it's not a story.

Your protagonist has to be active to drive the story on.

Give them a goal? Everyone has something they want - you just have to figure it out :)

Actually - that looks as if I'm disagreeing with Connieston's recommendation. I'm not, at all, knowledge is vital, but rules won't write for you - eventually you need to take a leap.

As well as thinking about what they want, also consider what they need. The character knows what they want but not necessarily what they need.

Writerperson, I think you can have an antagonist as the focus though the examples I have in mind would be [spoilers].

If you want to take the long view, write what you have in mind now and:

1. improve it as you go along and in the editing to make the protagonist drive things more/have more agency; and
2. finishing a full-length novel will make writing a better second novel easier.

I really don't want to sound patronising as you've probably written more (and better) than me but many writers learn how to write better by writing. And seem to have hidden their first novels in a drawer with good reason.

Also, although lots of PPs are giving good advice, I think some of the successfully published literary novels I've read don't have a strong protagonist with a clear goal. Genre fiction tends to be a little more bounded and clear cut.

Zilla1 that's a very good point re getting your first novel out of the way. Maybe I do need to just get something down (which also ties into George's suggestions of just getting on with some writing).

I am definitely getting frustrated and blocked by thinking I have to come up with this amazing 15 beat story plan (I found the Save the Cat beat sheet online) with the perfect protagonist and the perfect mid point etc etc.

But I have noticed that when I do sit down and write stuff that's when my ideas come, rather than when I just sit at a blank screen trying to make a perfect story outline. The problem is that I want to be a planner not a pantser and I don't really want to waste my own time writing reams of prose if my story is rubbish.

It's easy for me to give advice but I'd say it's better to use a process that works for you and gets your ideas out. I've seen novels and films that seem to have tried to conform to a Save the Cat structure and are uninteresting. You might not want to be a pantser but you might find you waste more time by planning out something that results in an uninteresting outcome. I'd rather read something interesting with internal integrity. Good luck.

Well I would say that a strong character is what I look for in a book. Could you do 1 chapter from the POV of the antagonist, then 1 from the protagonist and alternate like that?

Why is the protagonist a bit wet? Can you beef her up?

I love raising the stakes. It's not enough for a protagonist to be about to fall off a cliff, they have to have vertigo too. And if they have to jump off themselves in order to achieve their aim so much the better. I also find that if the plot is getting convoluted and I haven't a clue how to end it then the original premise wasn't clear enough in my mind. I tend to write in quite a visual filmic way, not remotely subtle

Writerperson - regarding your OP references to protagonist/antagonist - I suppose in line with Pinkruler's suggestion of alternating POV with protagonist/antagonist, you may have seen Game of Thrones has at least one chapter from Cersei's POV and I don't think everyone would consider her a clear protagonist rather than an antagonist (I must admit in GoT, there aren't a high proportion of characters who are clearly good protagonists).

Interesting thoughts here, thanks. I'm feeling a bit more positive today, also I found this article about starting creating your idea antagonist first...

www.helpingwritersbecomeauthors.com/how-to-plot-a-book/#

That made me feel like I'm not completely wrong if my idea has a more interesting antagonist at first.

I think I might just be obsessing about making my ideas match all the guidelines rather than just immersing myself in the idea and having fun with my characters.

When I first started I loved my protagonist, she was quite feisty and sweary with a dry, dark sense of humour, I think I'm blanding her out while trying to work out her character arc. Because I want her to grow into a brave, strong person that beats the antagonist I feel like she has to be weak and not very assertive at the start so she can grow and change, but I'm not keen on my weak wet blanket version. I'll keep thinking...

I feel you maybe need to have this conversation with your characters and not with the Internet ...

(But I’m old fashioned about these things.)

This sounds very similar to what I'm going through just now. I didn't want a wet, weak protagonist but I kinda had to cut her down a little bit because she needed room to grow.

My antagonist is amazing, I'm quite in love with him if I say so myself

I had to take a step back and give my protagonist a different way of fighting. So instead of pulling strength from her fists, she starts to use her mind more and ultimately becomes smarter and grows that way.

Could you try something similar? So if you're protagonist is already feisty, strong, etc, does she need to grow into someone who plots, who thinks before they act, who considers her moves carefully and ultimately does things totally against her strong nature to ultimately get what she wants?

You said she didn't have a goal, I think it's OK if the goal is somewhat given to her by the antagonist.. so what does she want? To avoid them, to fight them, to escape them, to destroy them? Sometimes their goal can be as simple as going back to their ordinary life pre antagonist, and if that's the case (especially in romance, romantic suspense etc) part of the fun is watching the goalposts move. Or move more than once as the protagonist reacts to whats going on. (Some may say this is a passive character but I think in some genres that's unavoidable, and not always a bad thing).

HundredMileStare thanks that's really useful and helps me problem solve and think about her a different way. I love that idea of having her still strong but needing a different type of strength or approach to succeed against the antagonist.

A week ago I was feeling very frustrated with my (lack of) progress and idea but I had a good day yesterday managing to rewrite my synopsis and seeing how much my story has grown since my last version, hopefully I'm going in the right direction a bit more now and if I can just crack this wet / weak protagonist thing, maybe I have a half decent story after all.