if a publisher approaches you - you'd assume they liked your stuff, right?

[vivariumvivariumsvivaria]

A large publisher asked if I'd consider writing a book for the masses about my niche, but interesting, field of work.

They have accepted my submission and want to sort a contract. I have no agent and no experience of publishing, I'm good at communicating so my profession wheel me out to do the media stuff, that's how the commissioning editor found me.

They've offered 1k as an advance - so I feel a bit conflicted. That means the sales department think I'll sell 1000 books? I'm not confident that they would be committed to marketing if that's all the faith they have in the product.

I assume the commissioning editor approached me because he saw I have commercial potential. Perhaps the editor's boss just isn't that into me - in which case the book won't get the sales and marketing support a niche thing needs.

Two other publishers suggested I submit something to them in the last couple of years - they are small but well regarded, my niche is their bread and butter. I've been half heartedly pulling bits and pieces together thinking "I'll do that next year" - I admit my head turned by a large publisher phoning me up and flattering me.

Should I speak to an agent to negotiate terms - even though I bypassed the difficult bit of getting a commission?

It's not actually the advance that's troubling me, it's that it suggests they aren't committed to the idea of the book. I suspect that, as it's a business, if I ask if they are being serious they might up their offer and therefore effort? But then again, I am unpublished, and they are taking a risk - so, maybe 1k is fair?

There's no advice on google about what to do if you are in this situation, I realise that this never happens and that I sound like a spoiled brat. Sorry about that.

WWYD?

I hope someone more knowledgeable about publishing will come forward for you but my thoughts would be:

• once you get the draft contract, you can get help with terms and conditions from certain bodies (you can google for that) and I would imagine that you could at the same time get advice on the level of advance?
• in the meantime you can negotiate direct with the publisher, on the basis that it is subject to you getting further advice, ask what their expectations for the book are, and working from that negotiate a higher advance?
• if you don't feel confident negotiating then maybe approach an agent?

If that turns out to be tosh then apologies, I am working on how commercial negotiations in my line of work would work, which is not publishing!

Hi, I work in publishing. An advance doesn't quite work like that. For a non fiction book (generalisation - depends what it is) 1000-2000 sounds about right, they're different to novels and are usually small, even for 'known' writers. It's not about confidence in sales in the same way novels are. (But also, kindly, you're assumedly an untried, unknown author, what do you think would be a fair sales projection for this book? Have you researched average sales for similar books by similar authors? Something to think about. It's actually harder than you think to sell books in the thousands!)

Remember, once you have earned out your advance (ie sold 1000ish copies) you'll start earning 10-12% on the RRP of every book (this is the important bit to look at in your contract). If you sell the publisher world rights, and they sell the rights to another country, that will stack against your advance and you'll start earning on the book even sooner.

If you involve an agent, your advance will drop to £850, as they take 15%. And I'm not sure how easy it would be to get one on the basis of this one book/deal. However agents are there to make sure you get the best deal, look after you legally, help and guide you in your writing career, and act as an intermediary with your publisher during the publishing process. It sort of depends what kind of book it is and whether you plan to write more as to whether you'll need that. If this is just a one off I personally probably wouldn't bother. Just be sure you're going with a well established bona fide publisher who has the staff and resources to spend on promoting your book and selling it into bookshops and the contract seems reasonable in terms of rights and percentages. If you want to, you could try to negotiate your advance up yourself, if your research shows that's reasonable for the market.

Read The Writers and Artists Yearbook to get a really good overview of how the industry works. HTH.

Thanks, both.

I totally understand that they are taking a gamble on me - I'm not published and they don't know I can/will deliver something saleable. I know I can, of course - but then, I am clearly biased and wrapped up in the niche that I think is fascinating and should interest everyone.

So, if the advance isn't a "meh" then I should take it and stop being so silly.

Hard to say without knowing all the details but especially since you're not a wannabe author and they approached you (ie it was their idea in the first place aka it's a commissioned book) the money sounds fine and you should be ok. Ask them as many questions as you need to about the contract and make sure you understand what you're signing and how it all works.

I also work in the industry but on the author side and I think that you’d be mad to consider not involving an agent. They sort your contract, manage your career, read your drafts, fight your corner, hold your hand (trust me, you’ll need this!)

Also, £1k is one of the lowest advances I’ve heard of, even for non fic. It’s very much at the low end of the spectrum and the agent can negotiate you more. Huge advances aren’t all they’re cracked up to be (you may never earn it out and publishers will be reluctant to commission more from you) but you should be fairly paid for your work.

That's interesting, Bah.

So, Just call up an agent and say "I've got three publishers interested - would you be interested in me?"

It DOES seem odd - presumably the commissioning editor saw what my writing and platform is (as robust as it can be) and yet, they don't seem really committed?

I assumed the commissioning editor would do the agent's role in house. Will do some googling.

I'm totally out of my depth.

Ah, well if you feel out of your depth and concerned about whether you're being treated fairly, then maybe you should consider an agent.

@bahhumppug Interesting. I think non fic advances hugely depend on genre and whether you're sharing with an illustrator and so on. Is it a stocking filler book? Is it a recipe book? Is it a biography? Or a memoir? (for the latter two obviously you'd be looking at advances more in line with fiction). What genre is it OP?

I don't understand why you don't think they're 'committed' because of what they've offered though. Can you explain?

Committed isn't the right word. I meant that it's so competitive, they have to care about the product in order to push it along. Book's science based - so, science for the masses.It's becoming a genre.

I think what I need is a chat with someone in publishing who understands and who can translate. I've got a friend who writes, I'll ask her for pointers.

I don't doubt it's all fine - it's just so new to me and I don't know what is reasonable.

Really appreciate your thoughts, thanks.

You’ve got three publishers interested? Yes definitely approach agents. That’s the start of an auction.

Science non-fiction definitely commands a higher advance than say a stocking-filler book, and I understand your reservations - they’re not putting much cash behind it so are they actually going to push it and market it appropriately, do they value you and the book? It’s impossible to know, but an agent is an expert in these things. Publishers aren’t all lovey dovey creative types - at the end of the day they’re a business looking for profit. Don’t think for a minute they wouldn’t try and get away with paying you a low amount if possible!

Well, I've got three publishers expressing an interest in a book that's not written!

I am wondering whether I should actually write it and then get back to them with a sample of a couple of chapters.

But then, a bird in the hand...

You can get advice from the Society of Authors.

I do think that's a pretty mediocre advance from a big publisher. I was in a similar position to you more than ten years ago and the advance I was offered was better than that even then.

What you have to bear in mind I think is that writing a book is bloody hard work. If you average out that advance over the number of hours it takes to write the book, it'll almost certainly work out less than minimum wage, with no guarantee of any further earnings from royalties.

Having said that I'm not sure that agents have magical powers that mere authors don't. If you are comfortable with negotiating on your own behalf why not do that?

Thanks for the advice to get advice. The Writers and Artists have an "agony agent" service. They were really on the ball - said "yeah, it's not a good offer".

So, am going to get the contract and see what exactly the detail is. Society of Authors will look at it, thanks for the top tip

I think it sounds like you should get an agent (in publishing too). You obviously are talented and interesting or your subject is interesting if more than one person is approaching you. An agent can discuss with you what the best use of your talent is and help you plan a potential career, even if it’s a side line for you. They can suggest good publishing house fits and editors who might like you, help you think about the ‘next book’, help you sell international rights If suitable, negotiate you better terms. Most agents can get you better terms and royalty rates than going it alone.

I agree with Bah. I'm a published author, too, and would definitely recommend that you approach an agent. I know they'd be glad to hear from you.

Are these self-publishing houses?